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Wikileaks' Assange says Ecuador seeking to end his asylum
- rurban 8y ago... and hand him over to the United States. The most important part. Not entirely unexpected, since the US backed candidate won the elections, and latin america is again almost socialism free. As in the good old 70ies. Let's see if they hack him to pieces as their dear friends do or just torture him for 90 years for exposing the US foreign policies.
- scardine 8y agoThe parent is pretty cynical and sarcastic but unfortunately I can't say it is far from the truth.
- panda427 8y agoI doubt he goes to the US. I feel Russia will offer asylum.
- 13415 8y agoAnd how would he get from the Ecuadorian embassy in London to Russia?
- IBM 8y agoApparently Russia was planning to help Assange escape [1]. Maybe they should try sticking him in a big diplomatic bag. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/21/julian-assange-russia-ecuador-embassy-london-secret-escape-plan https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/21/julian-assange...
- prolikewh0a 8y agoProbably in a body bag at that point. There's no way the ruling class lets Assange even step a foot out of the embassy without immediately taking him into custody.
- smhost 8y agoa mass protest could cause enough distraction, but that would take a lot of organizing, and we all know how good the left is at organizing.
- dang 8y agoPlease keep unsubstantive comments and political flamebait off HN.
- mohammedbin 8y agoDang this is for you since I can't reply directly. There is substance to what they said- mass protest can create distraction. And saying that left is good at organizing is no kind of flamebait. Can you clarify what you're talking about?
- dang 8y agoTaking right-vs.-left potshots in a throwaway remark is just way too low quality to meet the bar here. The GP comment "probably in a body bag" was almost as bad. We're trying for more thoughtful comments here.
- mohammedbin 8y agoWait what was the potshot here? Was it the tone? "We all know"? Maybe but only very little. If you're going to get this triggered over smallest things than why not ban political topics altogether?
- prolikewh0a 8y ago>The GP comment "probably in a body bag" was almost as bad. We're trying for more thoughtful comments here. It's just the truth. A lot of people/governments/entities want him dead. It wasn't meant to incite any kind of violence, just pointing out that he's a major target.
- the_watcher 8y agoI'm not 100% sure on how diplomatic immunity works here, but couldn't Russia send a diplomat in an official vehicle to the Ecuadorian embassy to pick Assange up? I think official vehicles get the same diplomatic protections of an embassy, so as long as he enters and exits the car inside embassy walls, he should be ok, right? Or does diplomatic immunity end entirely at the embassy walls?
- donohoe 8y agoNope. They couldn't.
- cheeze 8y agoCare to elaborate here?
- bcOpus 8y agoThe Russian diplomat would have immunity, the car is not a magic “immunity” force bubble for the occupants. Unless they grind him up and stick his remains in a diplomatic pouch, he’s gettable outside of an embassy. Diplomatic immunity doesn’t mean the police can’t pull you over and search you, it just means the diplomats in question can’t face criminal penalties as a result of what’s found.
- erichurkman 8y agoIs there a limitation to what counts as a "diplomatic pouch"? According to the Wikipedia article, even shipping containers have been used before [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_bag#Noteworthy_shipments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_bag#Noteworthy_ship...
- rsync 8y ago"... the car is not a magic “immunity” force bubble ..." No, but a diplomatic packet is. Just saying.
- deleted 8y ago
- Rotdhizon 8y agoDoesn't the US have people waiting outside the embassy 24/7 to snatch him if he ever tries to leave? Could have sworn I read that once.
- mexicanandre 8y agoWas just recently in London and walked past! I didn't see anyone just parked there, but im sure they were being more covert.
- greglindahl 8y agoThe UK used to have a 24x7 watch, but they got bored and left.
- dragonwriter 8y ago“Oops, he slipped through our fingers and got away to Russia” is arguably one of the better possible outcomes for the present US Administration if Ecuador boots him, at least if that happens before Mueller closes up shop.
- notahacker 8y agoIt's not a good outcome for a UK government that has to justify letting him slip through their fingers having previously spent an absolute fortune on policing.
- dragonwriter 8y agoThe UK government seems to have recognized he sunk cost fallacy as a fallacy when they stopped the 24×7 “grab Assange if he leaves” watch. Presuming Ecuador doesn't telegraph the timing of the ejection, I don't think there's a whole lot to justify that the UK government hasn't already clearly accepted the risk of needing to justify.
- iguy 8y ago> And how would he get from the Ecuadorian embassy in London to Russia? Easy! They fly 15 specialists over on a day-trip, equipped with some good music and a bone saw, and every part of him will be in Moscow the same evening.
- ttul 8y agoPerhaps he will shack up with Snowden and they can both live it large in a government apartment while having their movements tracked until they don't serve the needs of Putin's establishment. At which time they will be traded to the Americans for some behind-the-scenes consideration.
- Analemma_ 8y agoThey definitely will not. Assagne is an important lesson for anyone considering becoming a voluntary pawn of statecraft operations: the CIA coined the term “terminate with extreme prejudice“ for a reason. These agencies are not known for their loyalty to assets. Once the mission (Trump’s election, in this case) has been completed, you are a liability to be disposed of. Assagne let this go to his head and apparently thought he was an invaluable partner, rather than a loose end.
- cstejerean 8y agoSo he’s suing the government of Ecuador because of “new rules, which require him to pay for medical bills, phone calls and clean up after his pet cat”. I don’t know, those rules sound pretty reasonable to me. Why wasn’t he cleaning up after his pet cat in the first place? And that’s the evidence that they are trying to kick him out? Suing to challenge these rules certainly won’t help with the government’s good will.
- icebraining 8y agoDid you read the actual memo? Point 24, just as an example, prevents him from doing any activities that might be considered political. To me, reading the various restrictions, it seems pretty obvious that they're designed to give them as excuse to kick him out, and the lawsuit is just a way to buy some time.
- bogomipz 8y ago>"Did you read the actual memo?" There is no link to the "memo" in the Reuters article. Maybe it was removed? Might you have the link?
- icebraining 8y agoNo, I used a search engine. It's not hard to find: http://www.codigovidrio.com/code/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/protocolo-assange-final.pdf http://www.codigovidrio.com/code/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/...
- SEJeff 8y agoLove him or hate him, they're not required to keep him in their embassy forever, or pay his bills and clean up after him. Regardless of what he did, in the civilian world, he'd be similar to a squatter.
- sandworm101 8y ago>> in the civilian world, he'd be similar to a squatter. No and no. This is the civilian world. An embassy is an outpost of a civilian government. Despite all the spycraft associated with them, they are not military outposts and government cannot conduct military operations from them. They are armed only enough to defend themselves. He is also definitely not a squatter. He was invited in. Squatters by definition enter without permission.
- tyingq 8y agoFiling a lawsuit against the people providing your asylum probably wasn't wise. Especially given the imposed conditions seemed reasonable (pay your own medical bills, pick up after your cat, etc).
- detcader 8y agoI haven't read much in detail on this, but it seems to me like an unintentional stress test for asylum seeker accommodations. Doesn't really matter how you consider Assange as a person. If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, not just ignored as an exceptional case because he's showed jerk qualities, made serious journalistic gaffs, and the most powerful governments all hate him. By the way, Ecuador’s ex-president Rafael Correa called the treatment of Julian Assange as "basically torture"
- notafraudster 8y agoIt's not clear who the "like anyone else" comparison would be -- it is easy to imagine that the specifics of seeking asylum at a foreign embassy are very different than seeking asylum in the country itself. I would assume the average government gives asylum seekers a limited amount of transition aid (in finding housing, language instruction, buying initial food), and some of this may be provided by NGOs. Any costs incurred by the government may or may not go through general spending, but I would expect leverages domestic service provision (i.e. subsidized housing exists for non-asylum seekers and is leveraged to provide some for asylum seekers). Then after the first few years of asylum I would expect the government to have basically no further obligations to the person in question. On the other hand, Assange's living costs are wholly paid by the government of Ecuador and presumably come from the operational budget of the embassy. Also, the embassy itself is going to be physically limited in size. I don't live in London but I did live in an Embassy Row in another OECD country for a few years and many countries had embassies not much bigger than a 3 or 4 bedroom house. I definitely agree Ecuador, conditional on granting him asylum at all, should extend to Assange the same benefits they do to other long-term asylum grantees who live in their embassies worldwide. But I suspect the set of other people in that situation is cardinality 0. That's not Assange's fault, or Ecuador's or really anyone's. It'd surely be better for everyone involved if they could fly him to territorial Ecuador. But it is what it is.
- ilikehurdles 8y agoWhat U.S. charges is he seeking asylum from? Honest question.
- macspoofing 8y agoAfter the crap he pulled by coordinating with the Russians to mess with the last elections, I'm surprised Ecuador is still providing asylum to him.
- jessaustin 8y ago"Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment" https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/19/mueller-investigation-findings-914754 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/19/mueller-investigat...
- macspoofing 8y agoI believe it. I don't think Trump coordinated with Russians. I think Putin's hatred of Hillary and Russia's policy to fuck with the West is enough of a reason for Russia to help Trump without needing Trump to be directly engaged. Having said that, WikiLeaks collusion with Russia is a separate question and that one has already been show. For one thing, every major western intelligence agency has already made this point. Wikipedia has a nice write-up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Allegations_of_Russian_influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Allegations_of_Russi...
- starik36 8y agoWhere is your proof that he coordinated anything with the Russians? From what I can see, he publishes leaks which happen to be true.
- ascorbic 8y agoHe publishes leaks of documents provided to him by the Russians.
- cma 8y agoHow is that different than what he did with Kenya? He got a standing applause from the TED audience (hugely liberal (for America)/Democrat leaning) for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNOnvp5t7Do&t=2m13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNOnvp5t7Do&t=2m13s There was not much criticism for "interfering" in their politics on that one (though I'm sure there was by certain political classes in Kenya).
- tfolbrecht 8y agoEveryone saying not to sue your asylum host, please consider, there's aren't too many way to interface with something as nebulous as a government and its law. Talking to handlers only gets you so far. When your livelihood is at stake, and you want guarantees, you have to use the correct channel. They're not attacking the government. They're asking for clarification.
- santiagoIT 8y ago"The new president of Ecuador is not the strong and good man than his predecessor was." That comment really, really bothers me, even though I am no supporter of the new president. Assange was granted assylum by Correa, the previous president, a populist, a big ally of Chavez/Maduro. Granting asylum to Assange was a great international PR move for him. It made Correa seem like a supporter of freedom of speach/press. While he was in power there was no freedom of press/speach here in Ecuador. Today several of his top officials are in prison or have fled the country. Correa himself is wanted for the attempted kidnapping of an ecuadorian opposition leader in Colombia. The only reason this came to light is because the colombian police was able to capture the kidnappers during the attempted kidnapping. It turns out the kidnappers were all government officials... Many similarities to the Kagashogi story. Anyhow I truly wonder if Assange has the slightest idea of what type of 'leader' he received assylum from.... It is so ironic.... Something like Wikileaks would have been never, ever seen the light of day during Correa's regime here in Ecuador.