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I simply dont like the idea that the government will print more money. Mainstream 'economics' might not like a deflationary currency, but since the last econom

I simply dont like the idea that the government will print more money. Mainstream 'economics' might not like a deflationary currency, but since the last economic collapse was 10 years ago, I don't exactly trust 'economics'. There are 21,000,000 BTC ever ever ever.

seanhunter 8y ago
I have 2 problems with this line of argument that I haven't really heard anyone address in a useful way. 1)While abundance certainly reduces value (by creating oversupply), scarcity can't in and of itself create value if there isn't demand. Say there is only 1 original Sean Hunter painting in the entire world. Since there are 34 Vermeers, it should be worth more than a Vermeer, right? Well no. Vermeer was much much better at art than I will ever be, so noone is ever going to want to own anything I paint. 2)While there is a finite supply of BTC, there is a limitless supply of alternative altcoins, and no barrier whatsoever to entry, so people can keep creating them. Since these can be made functionally identical to BTC, why should BTC retain value through scarcity? It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  I think you might like this because it addresses both of your points. >Vermeer was much much better at art BTC is a 'much better coin' than alt coins. Its currently used worldwide. No other coin is used worldwide. Its not just scarce, but its also highly demanded. Consider that people don't care about other coins, AND this is scarce. Its very difficult to become a rockstar, but once you do, your signature is very valuable. BTC has broken into rockstar status. It has already happened. Alt coins have not.
  - 908087 8y ago
    > No other coin is used worldwide. This isn't even remotely accurate.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      What altcoin?
      - 908087 8y ago
        Of the altcoins that are actually functional, you'd have a harder time finding one that didn't have "users" around the world than one thar did. Let's just use Litecoin as an example here, or even dogecoin for that matter. Are you seriously claiming those don't have global reach?
  - XorNot 8y ago
    BTC can't extinguish debts and taxes in any nation-state on Earth. Taxation is in fact continually reducing the value of Bitcoin when it's applied - you can't pay your taxes in BTC, so you have to sell some of them to gain USD to cover your taxes (easy enough: you do it when you trade). But the person you sell them to has the same requirement - they will have to sell some BTC and trade out into local currency to extinguish tax obligations. The long term trend is everyone eventually must trade out of BTC to cover their taxes. The trajectory of BTC is inexorably down - the current market is irrational.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      It can extinguish debts. However, many people want to be paid in local currencies. Nations want their taxes to be paid in local currencies. Not sure why some situations requiring a different payment method has you hung up.
    - stale2002 8y ago
      This post is nonsense. Lots of people hold gold. These people musy sell their gold to pay taxes. This does not drive the price of gold down to 0, because that's not it works. Bitcoin is exactly the same as any other commodity.
- jstanley 8y ago
  > It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin. You can't pay to a Bitcoin wallet with an altcoin. It's a different currency. I could start printing jstanley dollars but that won't impact the scarcity of actual dollars. Even though a jstanley dollar is still just a piece of paper that can do exactly the same things as a USD piece of paper.

seanhunter 8y ago

I have 2 problems with this line of argument that I haven't really heard anyone address in a useful way. 1)While abundance certainly reduces value (by creating oversupply), scarcity can't in and of itself create value if there isn't demand. Say there is only 1 original Sean Hunter painting in the entire world. Since there are 34 Vermeers, it should be worth more than a Vermeer, right? Well no. Vermeer was much much better at art than I will ever be, so noone is ever going to want to own anything I paint. 2)While there is a finite supply of BTC, there is a limitless supply of alternative altcoins, and no barrier whatsoever to entry, so people can keep creating them. Since these can be made functionally identical to BTC, why should BTC retain value through scarcity? It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin.

mkirklions 8y ago
I think you might like this because it addresses both of your points. >Vermeer was much much better at art BTC is a 'much better coin' than alt coins. Its currently used worldwide. No other coin is used worldwide. Its not just scarce, but its also highly demanded. Consider that people don't care about other coins, AND this is scarce. Its very difficult to become a rockstar, but once you do, your signature is very valuable. BTC has broken into rockstar status. It has already happened. Alt coins have not.
- 908087 8y ago
  > No other coin is used worldwide. This isn't even remotely accurate.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    What altcoin?
    - 908087 8y ago
      Of the altcoins that are actually functional, you'd have a harder time finding one that didn't have "users" around the world than one thar did. Let's just use Litecoin as an example here, or even dogecoin for that matter. Are you seriously claiming those don't have global reach?
- XorNot 8y ago
  BTC can't extinguish debts and taxes in any nation-state on Earth. Taxation is in fact continually reducing the value of Bitcoin when it's applied - you can't pay your taxes in BTC, so you have to sell some of them to gain USD to cover your taxes (easy enough: you do it when you trade). But the person you sell them to has the same requirement - they will have to sell some BTC and trade out into local currency to extinguish tax obligations. The long term trend is everyone eventually must trade out of BTC to cover their taxes. The trajectory of BTC is inexorably down - the current market is irrational.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    It can extinguish debts. However, many people want to be paid in local currencies. Nations want their taxes to be paid in local currencies. Not sure why some situations requiring a different payment method has you hung up.
  - stale2002 8y ago
    This post is nonsense. Lots of people hold gold. These people musy sell their gold to pay taxes. This does not drive the price of gold down to 0, because that's not it works. Bitcoin is exactly the same as any other commodity.
jstanley 8y ago
> It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin. You can't pay to a Bitcoin wallet with an altcoin. It's a different currency. I could start printing jstanley dollars but that won't impact the scarcity of actual dollars. Even though a jstanley dollar is still just a piece of paper that can do exactly the same things as a USD piece of paper.