4 ms·

> The EU Parliament is elected based on popular vote. Depending from which country you are from your vote may weight differently up to a factor of 11 (Luxembou

by lixtra 8y ago

> The EU Parliament is elected based on popular vote. Depending from which country you are from your vote may weight differently up to a factor of 11 (Luxembourg vs Spain) [1], hardly democratic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_...

PunchTornado 8y ago
the same thing is happening in the US, right? big states like california vs smaller states like delaware. I think there is value into rules like these because otherwise smaller states will be always trumped.
- lixtra 8y ago
  This is not true for the Congress which is the comparable institution to the European Parliament. Each state is apportioned a number of seats which approximately corresponds to its share of the aggregate population of the 50 states. ... The method of equal proportions minimizes the percentage differences in the populations of the congressional districts. [1] Some outliers exist, because states are guaranteed at least one seat (compare that with 6 for Luxembourg) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_ap...
  - PunchTornado 8y ago
    I don't get your point. you say it is not true and then you agree that some outliers exist. this is exactly the point, that there are outliers like this in US Congress, just like there are in the EU parliament. Probably the value is higher in the EU, but I think that's fair to protect the smaller states.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      His argument is that the 11:1 ratio of MEPs is not democratic, but the 2:1 ratio of Congress is democratic. The UK has a system, widely known as democratic, where the government of the day (with the exception of 2010), does not have the support of the voting population. In 2015 David Cameron and his Tory party got 100% of power in Parliament, and thus 100% of power in the executive, based on 36.9% of the voting public. The U.S presidential elections are also classed as democratic, despite that twice in the last 20 years more people have voted for a different candidate than the one who became president. (It's actually worse than 11:1 ratio -- Podlaskie and Warmian-Masurian has 1.3m voters per MEP, Malta has 70,000, that's a 19:1 ratio) However I've never heard people complain that Malta, Luxemboug, Slovenia, Cyprus etc hold the cards, people always complain it's Germany and the UK that call the shots.
      - PunchTornado 8y ago
        also each vote cast in Wyoming is worth 3.6 as much as the same vote cast in California. still less than in the EU.
isostatic 8y ago
So the U.S. Senate is "hardly democratic", with Wyoming having a 68:1 ratio
- thrower123 8y ago
  The senate was never meant to be democratic; the state of US government classes must be atrocious these days, because people never seem to understand this. Senators have only been directly elected at all for 100 years, they were supposed to be a check on populism from the lower house, and a way for smaller states to block large states from ramrodding through nationwide legislation.

by lixtra 8y ago

PunchTornado 8y ago

the same thing is happening in the US, right? big states like california vs smaller states like delaware. I think there is value into rules like these because otherwise smaller states will be always trumped.

lixtra 8y ago
This is not true for the Congress which is the comparable institution to the European Parliament. Each state is apportioned a number of seats which approximately corresponds to its share of the aggregate population of the 50 states. ... The method of equal proportions minimizes the percentage differences in the populations of the congressional districts. [1] Some outliers exist, because states are guaranteed at least one seat (compare that with 6 for Luxembourg) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_ap...
- PunchTornado 8y ago
  I don't get your point. you say it is not true and then you agree that some outliers exist. this is exactly the point, that there are outliers like this in US Congress, just like there are in the EU parliament. Probably the value is higher in the EU, but I think that's fair to protect the smaller states.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    His argument is that the 11:1 ratio of MEPs is not democratic, but the 2:1 ratio of Congress is democratic. The UK has a system, widely known as democratic, where the government of the day (with the exception of 2010), does not have the support of the voting population. In 2015 David Cameron and his Tory party got 100% of power in Parliament, and thus 100% of power in the executive, based on 36.9% of the voting public. The U.S presidential elections are also classed as democratic, despite that twice in the last 20 years more people have voted for a different candidate than the one who became president. (It's actually worse than 11:1 ratio -- Podlaskie and Warmian-Masurian has 1.3m voters per MEP, Malta has 70,000, that's a 19:1 ratio) However I've never heard people complain that Malta, Luxemboug, Slovenia, Cyprus etc hold the cards, people always complain it's Germany and the UK that call the shots.
    - PunchTornado 8y ago
      also each vote cast in Wyoming is worth 3.6 as much as the same vote cast in California. still less than in the EU.

isostatic 8y ago

So the U.S. Senate is "hardly democratic", with Wyoming having a 68:1 ratio

thrower123 8y ago
The senate was never meant to be democratic; the state of US government classes must be atrocious these days, because people never seem to understand this. Senators have only been directly elected at all for 100 years, they were supposed to be a check on populism from the lower house, and a way for smaller states to block large states from ramrodding through nationwide legislation.