4 ms·

Machine Identification Code

62 points by vishnuharidas 8y ago

captainmuon 8y ago
I've posted this recently before: I believe that your gear should be "loyal" to you, and do whatever you want, without spying on you or betraying you. In my opinion, this should be a basic right. You might counter: yes but why shouldn't we add this, if we can easily stop people from counterfeiting money, leaking documents, flying drones in restricted areas and so on. It's so convenient that we can stop this with a bit of technology. We'll, it would be convenient if we could compell people to testify against themselves or their families, or if we would open and scan all mail, or require priests to report confessions to law enforcement. Yes, we could reduce some crimes this way, but we deliberately chose not to. It's a matter of weighting the interests of law enforcement against a basic feeling of "trust" that you have inside a society.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  Fundamentally it's about the commitment to individual liberty as the highest good. Something that's fallen by the wayside in recent years.
  - nerdponx 8y ago
    Whose commitment, exactly? The more I watch current events unfold, the more I realize they are the culmination of a very long game played by very powerful people, over the course of at least a generation.
    - beaconstudios 8y ago
      the commitment of the predominant culture. I'm always less inclined to believe that it's a few powerful people, and more inclined to think it's a cultural war between memes (in the Dawkins sense). People are driven by ideas. If powerful people are contributing to a cause it's probably because they are under the influence of a meme. That, or a more Machiavellian reasoning like trying to purchase social capital.
      - nerdponx 8y ago
        The war between memes is fostered by these few and powerful.
  - mnx 8y ago
    I don't think it ever was the _highest_ good. It may be argued that it has moved around the hierarchy, and it may in fact not be at an all time high, but there were always things which we (society) put above liberty.
    - beaconstudios 8y ago
      early American history strikes me as being punctuated by periods where individual liberty was the highest value. The frontier/westward expansion, for example. The constitution itself seems hinged on optimising for personal liberty by balancing "freedom to" and "freedom from" liberties. I always thought of personal liberty as the value from which other values derive. For example, the law exists to protect our rights (the right to life and the right to property being the most obvious examples) from bad actors. Social welfare and socialised healthcare restrict the damage that personal catastrophe and random chance can do to our freedoms.
booleandilemma 8y ago
Any competent bad guy knows to create messages composed of cut out letters from various magazine headlines.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
fghtr 8y ago
See also "List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots (eff.org)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 and "Why printers add secret tracking dots (bbc.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14505444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14505444
- Forge36 8y ago
  I checked the EFF page, it appears the list is no longer maintained.
motohagiography 8y ago
There was a plot point in the film, "The Lives of Others," where the East German police keep a registration and fingerprint of all typewriters, and find a document written on an unregistered typewriter. The precedents for machine identity go way back. The only difference is at least here, you don't need a license or registration for a printer, albeit you do in effect for a mobile device. Remember to act surprised.
sebazzz 8y ago
I wonder how actual tracking works. They cannot know my laser printer at home prints certain dots? They must know first that I may have done it, then get printed paper to match the dots.
- vishnuharidas 8y ago
  Once they have a printed paper, they can decode it and find out the printer serial number. This serial number is included in the invoice that you received when buying that printer, thus the printer company knows who owns a printer that has a particular serial number.
undersuit 8y ago
Well that's one way to link to a Git repo. The first source is for deda, a new program to detect and overlay a block on the tracking dots.
daedalus2027 8y ago
This is neat: https://github.com/dfd-tud/deda https://github.com/dfd-tud/deda

62 points by vishnuharidas 8y ago

I've posted this recently before: I believe that your gear should be "loyal" to you, and do whatever you want, without spying on you or betraying you. In my opinion, this should be a basic right. You might counter: yes but why shouldn't we add this, if we can easily stop people from counterfeiting money, leaking documents, flying drones in restricted areas and so on. It's so convenient that we can stop this with a bit of technology. We'll, it would be convenient if we could compell people to testify against themselves or their families, or if we would open and scan all mail, or require priests to report confessions to law enforcement. Yes, we could reduce some crimes this way, but we deliberately chose not to. It's a matter of weighting the interests of law enforcement against a basic feeling of "trust" that you have inside a society.

beaconstudios 8y ago
Fundamentally it's about the commitment to individual liberty as the highest good. Something that's fallen by the wayside in recent years.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  Whose commitment, exactly? The more I watch current events unfold, the more I realize they are the culmination of a very long game played by very powerful people, over the course of at least a generation.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    the commitment of the predominant culture. I'm always less inclined to believe that it's a few powerful people, and more inclined to think it's a cultural war between memes (in the Dawkins sense). People are driven by ideas. If powerful people are contributing to a cause it's probably because they are under the influence of a meme. That, or a more Machiavellian reasoning like trying to purchase social capital.
    - nerdponx 8y ago
      The war between memes is fostered by these few and powerful.
- mnx 8y ago
  I don't think it ever was the _highest_ good. It may be argued that it has moved around the hierarchy, and it may in fact not be at an all time high, but there were always things which we (society) put above liberty.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    early American history strikes me as being punctuated by periods where individual liberty was the highest value. The frontier/westward expansion, for example. The constitution itself seems hinged on optimising for personal liberty by balancing "freedom to" and "freedom from" liberties. I always thought of personal liberty as the value from which other values derive. For example, the law exists to protect our rights (the right to life and the right to property being the most obvious examples) from bad actors. Social welfare and socialised healthcare restrict the damage that personal catastrophe and random chance can do to our freedoms.

booleandilemma 8y ago

Any competent bad guy knows to create messages composed of cut out letters from various magazine headlines.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

fghtr 8y ago

See also "List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots (eff.org)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 and "Why printers add secret tracking dots (bbc.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14505444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14505444

Forge36 8y ago
I checked the EFF page, it appears the list is no longer maintained.

motohagiography 8y ago

There was a plot point in the film, "The Lives of Others," where the East German police keep a registration and fingerprint of all typewriters, and find a document written on an unregistered typewriter. The precedents for machine identity go way back. The only difference is at least here, you don't need a license or registration for a printer, albeit you do in effect for a mobile device. Remember to act surprised.

sebazzz 8y ago

I wonder how actual tracking works. They cannot know my laser printer at home prints certain dots? They must know first that I may have done it, then get printed paper to match the dots.

vishnuharidas 8y ago
Once they have a printed paper, they can decode it and find out the printer serial number. This serial number is included in the invoice that you received when buying that printer, thus the printer company knows who owns a printer that has a particular serial number.

undersuit 8y ago

Well that's one way to link to a Git repo. The first source is for deda, a new program to detect and overlay a block on the tracking dots.

daedalus2027 8y ago

This is neat: https://github.com/dfd-tud/deda https://github.com/dfd-tud/deda