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The Ordinary Greatness of Roger Bannister

32 points by refrigerator 8y ago

bloak 8y ago
Interestingly, he probably wasn't the first person to run a mile in four minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile#Possible_other_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile#Possible_othe... Probably none of the previous cases is sufficiently well documented to be recognised on its own, but there are several cases that are 90% certain, or thereabouts, so probably at least one of the previous cases - there are more of them than the three mentioned in the Wikipedia article - did involve someone running a mile in four minutes. There's a whole book on the subject, I think, but I can't remember the title.
- wging 8y ago
  None of those are really credible, and "90% certain" doesn't really fit with the level of knowledge you're describing about the other supposed cases.
  - bloak 8y ago
    Not sure what you mean by any of that. There's a bit more info here if you're interested in digging deeper: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27298505 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27298505 https://www.theactivetimes.com/does-first-four-minute-mile-predate-american-revolutionary-war https://www.theactivetimes.com/does-first-four-minute-mile-p... I can't find the book I was thinking of. I don't think it was "Running: A Global History", but perhaps it was. (I though this stuff might be interesting for some people. Am I breaking some rule by mentioning it in this context?)
francisofascii 8y ago
Roger Bannister was far from ordinary in his time. High school runners can run 4 minute miles today, mainly because they have the benefit of knowing how to properly train, thanks to all previous athletes and trainers that came before them. The metaphor "Standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- JamesCoyne 8y ago
  There is a popular TED talk which argues in part that improved technology and training is key to modern records. Bannister is mentioned briefly at 3 minutes in. https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en#t-169690 https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_... The speaker notes that Bannister ran his mile on a cinder track and claims it degrades performance by 1.5% compared to a modern synthetic track. Cinder tracks do look like they would be quite soft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGgiMDHjKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGgiMDHjKM This site claims that British cinder tracks were mostly crushed brick rubble. They required heavily spiked shoes. https://theolympians.co/2015/07/01/the-last-of-the-cinder-tracks/ https://theolympians.co/2015/07/01/the-last-of-the-cinder-tr...
  - mikestew 8y ago
    As one old enough, and went to a school poorly-funded enough, to have run on a cinder track, I'm truly surprised at a mere 1.5% performance loss. Perhaps pro-level tracks in the 50s were better taken care of than our high school track, but I'd guess (and this is from memory quite some time ago) double-digit percentages of loss. When we had a home meet on our cinder track, we just ran for place because the times wouldn't even be in the neighborhood of the worst all-weather (paved/hard-surfaced) track. To run 4 minutes on such a thing with 50s nutrition and training? Unimaginable to me. Let alone compared to the rubberized-surface of a (what used to be) high-level track. Even the local Redmond high school track is miles better than the best I ran on in the 80s. As for what the "cinders" were made of, I'm pretty sure ours was made from literal cinders. The output of coal-fired power plants, IIRC. It wasn't brick rubble, that's for sure.
    - JamesCoyne 8y ago
      I often wonder about the extent of training done by early-modern olympic caliber athletes. As the olympics were originally supposed to be for amateurs, it sounds like a person who devoted most of their time to training was not considered a fair sport.
gdepalma 8y ago
In twenty-five years there will probably be high school athletes hitting forehands like Roger Federer.

32 points by refrigerator 8y ago

Interestingly, he probably wasn't the first person to run a mile in four minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile#Possible_other_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile#Possible_othe... Probably none of the previous cases is sufficiently well documented to be recognised on its own, but there are several cases that are 90% certain, or thereabouts, so probably at least one of the previous cases - there are more of them than the three mentioned in the Wikipedia article - did involve someone running a mile in four minutes. There's a whole book on the subject, I think, but I can't remember the title.

wging 8y ago
None of those are really credible, and "90% certain" doesn't really fit with the level of knowledge you're describing about the other supposed cases.
- bloak 8y ago
  Not sure what you mean by any of that. There's a bit more info here if you're interested in digging deeper: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27298505 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27298505 https://www.theactivetimes.com/does-first-four-minute-mile-predate-american-revolutionary-war https://www.theactivetimes.com/does-first-four-minute-mile-p... I can't find the book I was thinking of. I don't think it was "Running: A Global History", but perhaps it was. (I though this stuff might be interesting for some people. Am I breaking some rule by mentioning it in this context?)

francisofascii 8y ago

Roger Bannister was far from ordinary in his time. High school runners can run 4 minute miles today, mainly because they have the benefit of knowing how to properly train, thanks to all previous athletes and trainers that came before them. The metaphor "Standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
JamesCoyne 8y ago
There is a popular TED talk which argues in part that improved technology and training is key to modern records. Bannister is mentioned briefly at 3 minutes in. https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en#t-169690 https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_... The speaker notes that Bannister ran his mile on a cinder track and claims it degrades performance by 1.5% compared to a modern synthetic track. Cinder tracks do look like they would be quite soft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGgiMDHjKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGgiMDHjKM This site claims that British cinder tracks were mostly crushed brick rubble. They required heavily spiked shoes. https://theolympians.co/2015/07/01/the-last-of-the-cinder-tracks/ https://theolympians.co/2015/07/01/the-last-of-the-cinder-tr...
- mikestew 8y ago
  As one old enough, and went to a school poorly-funded enough, to have run on a cinder track, I'm truly surprised at a mere 1.5% performance loss. Perhaps pro-level tracks in the 50s were better taken care of than our high school track, but I'd guess (and this is from memory quite some time ago) double-digit percentages of loss. When we had a home meet on our cinder track, we just ran for place because the times wouldn't even be in the neighborhood of the worst all-weather (paved/hard-surfaced) track. To run 4 minutes on such a thing with 50s nutrition and training? Unimaginable to me. Let alone compared to the rubberized-surface of a (what used to be) high-level track. Even the local Redmond high school track is miles better than the best I ran on in the 80s. As for what the "cinders" were made of, I'm pretty sure ours was made from literal cinders. The output of coal-fired power plants, IIRC. It wasn't brick rubble, that's for sure.
  - JamesCoyne 8y ago
    I often wonder about the extent of training done by early-modern olympic caliber athletes. As the olympics were originally supposed to be for amateurs, it sounds like a person who devoted most of their time to training was not considered a fair sport.

gdepalma 8y ago

In twenty-five years there will probably be high school athletes hitting forehands like Roger Federer.