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“illegals” is a ridiculous and perjorative term. It’s not possible to be an illegal human being. Strange how people who supposedly abhor ‘big government’ and ‘o

“illegals” is a ridiculous and perjorative term. It’s not possible to be an illegal human being. Strange how people who supposedly abhor ‘big government’ and ‘over regulation’ give vast credence to government’s power to permit people to exist within an area or not.

masonic 8y ago
It’s not possible to be an illegal human being It's about humans doing illegal acts.
- code_duck 8y ago
  Right. So when a human commits an illegal act, such a a misdemeanor visa overstay, that doesn’t make the person ‘an illegal’ anymore than you become ‘an illegal’ because you habitually speed in your car.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Nitpick: unauthorized entry is a misdemeanor, but visa overstay is just a civil offense. This makes the comparison to speeding even more apt, of course.
    - code_duck 8y ago
      Thank you. I’m not a lawyer, but I’m positive be average person using the term “illegals” to refer to individuals of questionable immigration status understands less about the law than I and certainly less about morality.
tropo 8y ago
The only fully correct term, as used in our laws and in numerous Supreme Court rulings, is "illegal alien". Shortening that to "aliens" causes confusion with legal aliens (people legitimately here with a valid visa, etc.) and of course with fictional creatures from space. Without the power to permit people to exist within an area or not, one can not have any sort of social aid. Several billion people would show up to claim it.
- code_duck 8y ago
  I’d have to be sarcastic to say that was an interesting or useful perspective to which I had never been introduced. I’ll leave this to other people to battle off HN. Best of luck informing yourself about how to not use perjorative terms to slander vast amounts of people. As far as immigration control, I disagree with your scenario. Since my comment was about people who supposedly abhor regulation, i’d like to make sure to apply the same logic to pollution, financial fraud, lobbying and labor abuse.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Shortening it to “illegals” is weird, though, since it could easily be the shorthand for illegal hunters, illegal employers, illegal polluters, or what have you.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Except being undocumented isn't actually a crime, so they're not committing an illegal act.
  - tropo 8y ago
    I didn't say they were committing an illegal act, although most are. I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. The vast majority are not undocumented. They have fraudulent documentation. Identity theft is not a victimless crime. Overstaying a visa isn't a crime, but getting a visa with the intent to overstay it is a crime. Jumping the border is obviously a crime. Those two methods of entry cover the vast majority. There aren't a lot of people who intended to leave and then just... forgot the visa expiration date or something.
    - code_duck 8y ago
      Coming to the US to pick crops is a victimless ‘crime’. If anyone, the bigger criminals are the US citizens who own the companies, large and small, who hire undocumented workers and know full well they are doing it.

masonic 8y ago

It’s not possible to be an illegal human being It's about humans doing illegal acts.

code_duck 8y ago
Right. So when a human commits an illegal act, such a a misdemeanor visa overstay, that doesn’t make the person ‘an illegal’ anymore than you become ‘an illegal’ because you habitually speed in your car.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Nitpick: unauthorized entry is a misdemeanor, but visa overstay is just a civil offense. This makes the comparison to speeding even more apt, of course.
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Thank you. I’m not a lawyer, but I’m positive be average person using the term “illegals” to refer to individuals of questionable immigration status understands less about the law than I and certainly less about morality.

tropo 8y ago

The only fully correct term, as used in our laws and in numerous Supreme Court rulings, is "illegal alien". Shortening that to "aliens" causes confusion with legal aliens (people legitimately here with a valid visa, etc.) and of course with fictional creatures from space. Without the power to permit people to exist within an area or not, one can not have any sort of social aid. Several billion people would show up to claim it.

code_duck 8y ago
I’d have to be sarcastic to say that was an interesting or useful perspective to which I had never been introduced. I’ll leave this to other people to battle off HN. Best of luck informing yourself about how to not use perjorative terms to slander vast amounts of people. As far as immigration control, I disagree with your scenario. Since my comment was about people who supposedly abhor regulation, i’d like to make sure to apply the same logic to pollution, financial fraud, lobbying and labor abuse.
mikeash 8y ago
Shortening it to “illegals” is weird, though, since it could easily be the shorthand for illegal hunters, illegal employers, illegal polluters, or what have you.
monocasa 8y ago
Except being undocumented isn't actually a crime, so they're not committing an illegal act.
- tropo 8y ago
  I didn't say they were committing an illegal act, although most are. I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. The vast majority are not undocumented. They have fraudulent documentation. Identity theft is not a victimless crime. Overstaying a visa isn't a crime, but getting a visa with the intent to overstay it is a crime. Jumping the border is obviously a crime. Those two methods of entry cover the vast majority. There aren't a lot of people who intended to leave and then just... forgot the visa expiration date or something.
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Coming to the US to pick crops is a victimless ‘crime’. If anyone, the bigger criminals are the US citizens who own the companies, large and small, who hire undocumented workers and know full well they are doing it.