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The comments seem to honestly reflect the state of the technology, its environmental impact, the annoyance factor of its extreme adherents, the total lack of a

The comments seem to honestly reflect the state of the technology, its environmental impact, the annoyance factor of its extreme adherents, the total lack of a really compelling non-ideological or criminal use case after more than a decade, and a deflating bubble. The insane gulf between the promises made by the “every day brings a new breakthrough” crowd and the reality of ICO’s and Bitcoin is vast, and hard to ignore. Blockchain is a neat idea, but presently it is used in ways that are far from compelling, and I’m yet to hear of a non-hypothetical application that could change that (apart from buying drugs, or money laundering). It’s also hard to forget the last few years of relentless evangelism, which was equal parts annoying and ethically challenged.

colordrops 8y ago
"money laundering" is a feature, not a bug. To bucket all forms of monetary subversion as a bad is like saying all drugs are bad. There is too much control exerted by various authorities and companies over transactions and Bitcoin creates a much needed outlet.
csomar 8y ago
This "I don't see a use-case for my very limited life/experience/work" is very toxic. I use Bitcoin to get paid and to pay. That is legitimate. I know a lot of people that uses it for the same reason. There is also a whole lot people using it to evade capital controls; which is modern day repression on freedoms. Also what is wrong about buying "drugs"? Would you say the same about an encrypted messaging platform that operates in China. That the user should not use it since China did not approve that?
basch 8y ago
>I’m yet to hear of a non-hypothetical application that could change that shared accounting systems between collaborates. complete replacement of ap/ar and every company in a consortium not needing to keep their own, isolated, audit requiring, double entry books. the amount of duplication reduction potential is staggering.
corv 8y ago
The comments reflect the (perceived) state of the technology. One has to admit that the reputation of the entire space has been tarnished by snake oil salesmen. For some historical context it is worth looking at countless examples such as the Railway Mania[1] of the 1840s or the more recent Dot-Com bubble[2]. For more depth one can read Mackay[3]. Some of the most promising advancements in payment channels were only published as papers in 2016[4] and are understandably still being implemented. If anything the speed at which enthusiasts are willing to deploy experimental software at their own risk is breathtaking. Regarding the environmental impact of the Bitcoin network, while being widely derided for its energy use, it is in fact using less electricity than the major credit card networks. It is also using less energy than global gold mining. There are ways to reduce consumption should a consensus accept the tradeoffs. The term "Blockchain" as it is currently used often refers to private chains which are in vogue with corporate stakeholders. This appears to be a solution in search of a problem–I have not been able to identify a compelling use case here either. Most ICOs are outright scams. It is truly unfortunate that promising advancements of micropayments, smart contracts and the world's closet thing to an incorruptible currency are lumped together with so much rubbish. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Mania [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusion... [4]https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf
- CPLX 8y ago
  > the reputation of the entire space has been tarnished by snake oil salesmen The market for snake oil wasn't much without the salespeople in the end though, was it?
- Qworg 8y ago
  Do you have a source on the electricity use of major card networks? Lightning is broken, sadly - not enough trust.
  - corv 8y ago
legionof7 8y ago
I think that it's much harder to think of valid use cases in the US and other developed countries (not that they don't exist) But, for the most part, our financial systems work. In countries like Venezuela, it doesn't, and blockchain is much more revolutionary.
stale2002 8y ago
The compelling usecase is censorship resistant financial transactions. The fact that you have never been subject to financial censorship puts you in a priviledged position that you are fortunate to be in. I am similarly priviledged in that I have never needed to use TOR, but I still recognize the extreme value of something like TOR brings for the billions of people in the world who live under oppressive, censoring governments.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  I simply dont like the idea that the government will print more money. Mainstream 'economics' might not like a deflationary currency, but since the last economic collapse was 10 years ago, I don't exactly trust 'economics'. There are 21,000,000 BTC ever ever ever.
  - seanhunter 8y ago
    I have 2 problems with this line of argument that I haven't really heard anyone address in a useful way. 1)While abundance certainly reduces value (by creating oversupply), scarcity can't in and of itself create value if there isn't demand. Say there is only 1 original Sean Hunter painting in the entire world. Since there are 34 Vermeers, it should be worth more than a Vermeer, right? Well no. Vermeer was much much better at art than I will ever be, so noone is ever going to want to own anything I paint. 2)While there is a finite supply of BTC, there is a limitless supply of alternative altcoins, and no barrier whatsoever to entry, so people can keep creating them. Since these can be made functionally identical to BTC, why should BTC retain value through scarcity? It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      I think you might like this because it addresses both of your points. >Vermeer was much much better at art BTC is a 'much better coin' than alt coins. Its currently used worldwide. No other coin is used worldwide. Its not just scarce, but its also highly demanded. Consider that people don't care about other coins, AND this is scarce. Its very difficult to become a rockstar, but once you do, your signature is very valuable. BTC has broken into rockstar status. It has already happened. Alt coins have not.

colordrops 8y ago

"money laundering" is a feature, not a bug. To bucket all forms of monetary subversion as a bad is like saying all drugs are bad. There is too much control exerted by various authorities and companies over transactions and Bitcoin creates a much needed outlet.

csomar 8y ago

This "I don't see a use-case for my very limited life/experience/work" is very toxic. I use Bitcoin to get paid and to pay. That is legitimate. I know a lot of people that uses it for the same reason. There is also a whole lot people using it to evade capital controls; which is modern day repression on freedoms. Also what is wrong about buying "drugs"? Would you say the same about an encrypted messaging platform that operates in China. That the user should not use it since China did not approve that?

basch 8y ago

>I’m yet to hear of a non-hypothetical application that could change that shared accounting systems between collaborates. complete replacement of ap/ar and every company in a consortium not needing to keep their own, isolated, audit requiring, double entry books. the amount of duplication reduction potential is staggering.

corv 8y ago

The comments reflect the (perceived) state of the technology. One has to admit that the reputation of the entire space has been tarnished by snake oil salesmen. For some historical context it is worth looking at countless examples such as the Railway Mania[1] of the 1840s or the more recent Dot-Com bubble[2]. For more depth one can read Mackay[3]. Some of the most promising advancements in payment channels were only published as papers in 2016[4] and are understandably still being implemented. If anything the speed at which enthusiasts are willing to deploy experimental software at their own risk is breathtaking. Regarding the environmental impact of the Bitcoin network, while being widely derided for its energy use, it is in fact using less electricity than the major credit card networks. It is also using less energy than global gold mining. There are ways to reduce consumption should a consensus accept the tradeoffs. The term "Blockchain" as it is currently used often refers to private chains which are in vogue with corporate stakeholders. This appears to be a solution in search of a problem–I have not been able to identify a compelling use case here either. Most ICOs are outright scams. It is truly unfortunate that promising advancements of micropayments, smart contracts and the world's closet thing to an incorruptible currency are lumped together with so much rubbish. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Mania [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusion... [4]https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

CPLX 8y ago
> the reputation of the entire space has been tarnished by snake oil salesmen The market for snake oil wasn't much without the salespeople in the end though, was it?
Qworg 8y ago
Do you have a source on the electricity use of major card networks? Lightning is broken, sadly - not enough trust.
- corv 8y ago

legionof7 8y ago

I think that it's much harder to think of valid use cases in the US and other developed countries (not that they don't exist) But, for the most part, our financial systems work. In countries like Venezuela, it doesn't, and blockchain is much more revolutionary.

stale2002 8y ago

The compelling usecase is censorship resistant financial transactions. The fact that you have never been subject to financial censorship puts you in a priviledged position that you are fortunate to be in. I am similarly priviledged in that I have never needed to use TOR, but I still recognize the extreme value of something like TOR brings for the billions of people in the world who live under oppressive, censoring governments.

mkirklions 8y ago
I simply dont like the idea that the government will print more money. Mainstream 'economics' might not like a deflationary currency, but since the last economic collapse was 10 years ago, I don't exactly trust 'economics'. There are 21,000,000 BTC ever ever ever.
- seanhunter 8y ago
  I have 2 problems with this line of argument that I haven't really heard anyone address in a useful way. 1)While abundance certainly reduces value (by creating oversupply), scarcity can't in and of itself create value if there isn't demand. Say there is only 1 original Sean Hunter painting in the entire world. Since there are 34 Vermeers, it should be worth more than a Vermeer, right? Well no. Vermeer was much much better at art than I will ever be, so noone is ever going to want to own anything I paint. 2)While there is a finite supply of BTC, there is a limitless supply of alternative altcoins, and no barrier whatsoever to entry, so people can keep creating them. Since these can be made functionally identical to BTC, why should BTC retain value through scarcity? It's not doing anything that can't easily be done via another altcoin.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    I think you might like this because it addresses both of your points. >Vermeer was much much better at art BTC is a 'much better coin' than alt coins. Its currently used worldwide. No other coin is used worldwide. Its not just scarce, but its also highly demanded. Consider that people don't care about other coins, AND this is scarce. Its very difficult to become a rockstar, but once you do, your signature is very valuable. BTC has broken into rockstar status. It has already happened. Alt coins have not.