4 ms·

PayPal and GoDaddy terminating business with them? I must be living under a rock because I don't think I've heard of gab.com before these tweets started appeari

by warent 8y ago

PayPal and GoDaddy terminating business with them? I must be living under a rock because I don't think I've heard of gab.com before these tweets started appearing on HN. What exactly did they do to piss everyone off?

anonymous5133 8y ago
Basically they created a platform for freedom of speech. The problem is that every crack pot on the internet basically flocked to the site to say very mean thing about other people. I think we all agree that hate speech is not good but outright silencing people is not the correct solution. If you want to eliminate hate speech then you need to confront the people doing the hate speech and argue with them about why they're wrong. Many other social media sites also suffer from massive amounts of hate speech as well.
- belltaco 8y ago
  > and argue with them about why they're wrong. It's hard to argue with people that are not even wrong. For example, some hold beliefs like "Women are subhuman and only exist to serve men and were created for that purpose." How do you even argue against something like that?
- philjohn 8y ago
  They haven't been silenced, a business they use has decided that they no longer want to do business with them. They can go and get another registrar, and if they need another payment provider, they can always set up one themselves, or start taking bitcoin.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  > and argue with them about why they're wrong. Does that actually work?
  - Faark 8y ago
    It can work. It doesn't help that simple imaginary solutions that probably blame some scape goat are easy to sell compared to complicated trade-offs that marginally reduce systemic issues our society has. The US political system practically allowing only two parties doesn't help, since it makes it easy to disregard everyone not with your team instead of having to engage with a large set of different opinions. But you quite often see people post something like "thanks for saving me from being an alt-righter" in the community of for example twitch-streamer Destiny. He did engage alt right youtubers in discussions, but recently scaled that back somewhat... apparently having a right wing mob hate you is a real thread to your livelihood as well. He says he has still no idea why he got his permanent twitter ban... so yeah, I'd love someone to look into that... Anyway, we are talking about the marketplace of ideas. As with any marketplace, you need marketing to sell the good (idea). Guess what kind of ideas are worth paying for? Probably the kind that will benefit those with lots of capital. And for that reason do real lefties think capitalism will eventually always end in fascism once disillusioned people demand change and only a communist revolution can save us. I always disregarded that as stupid, but the last few years make it more and more difficult...
  - yongjik 8y ago
    If that worked, we'd be seeing constant stream of ex-neo-Nazis who were frequenting Gab, turned around by argument, and stopped being neo-Nazis. Because, after all, Gab would be one of the most effective places for "de-radicalization" operation: it's filled with people ready to be logically persuaded! Well, guess what, it doesn't happen.
manicdee 8y ago
Gab was founded by people who think that “freedom of speech” means they’re allowed to say what they want without consequence. They view being ushered out of the theatre for talking during a movie as censorship.
- kamaal 8y ago
  Adding to your point, there is whole generation of people who think 'freedom of speech' also means entitlement to get an audience. You can see this phenomenon in Indian right wing Twitter accounts, the talk is like: Don't I have freedom of speech? Why don't people listen to what I say? Why am I being deprived of audience? And like you said many people have a hard time coming to terms when faced with fact that 'freedom of speech' only gives you the freedom to talk, as such no immunity is provided for the consequences of the speech. This leads to all sorts of crazy situations, for example: Many people give like hate inciting speech to create a riot, and almost act like they indulged in a great tradition of democracy. On the very long term, things like 'freedom of speech', only make sense when they become a force for good. Another common abuse is comedians, cartoonists etc, in full conscious creating mischief and expect people to just happily put up with it.
- nilkn 8y ago
  I disagree. The idea behind sites like gab is that sites like Twitter are increasingly functioning like public spaces, but they exercise great ideological control over what one is allowed to say within those spaces. The folks behind gab and similar sites think that one should not be banned from Twitter -- that is quite different from speech without consequence. One can still be humiliated, shamed, and socially shunned in every way possible. You could still be fired from your job. You could also just be completely ignored -- merely not being banned from Twitter does not grant you even a single follower. To illustrate the issue, consider that one can be suspended or even banned from Twitter simply for stating (rightly or wrongly) that there are two genders. But Sarah Jeong-style tweets are considered perfectly fine, even though they are hateful and racist in many ways. I think these examples illustrate that what is at stake here is much more than just the ability of mass murderers to spew hatred. To make your analogy stronger, you would have to imagine a world in which theaters had become the standard place to talk and engage in discourse amongst tens of millions of people simultaneously.
snailmailman 8y ago
I think these articles are related. I hadn’t heard of gab until now either, but after the synagogue shooting these articles brought attention to the fact that gab was one of the social media sites that the shooter frequented. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661532688/a-look-at-gab-the-free-speech-social-site-where-synagogue-shooting-suspect-poste https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661532688/a-look-at-gab-the-f... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shootings.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pitt...
- tptacek 8y ago
  That NPR piece is particularly frustrating, because it leaves the impression that Gab sort of happened to become a white nationalist haven. But of course, Gab was founded by a dude who got kicked out of YC for harassing minorities and runs a Twitter account that posts anti-Semitic (among other things) tweets. There's nothing accidental about what Gab is.
  - blatherard 8y ago
    Context for those unfamiliar with Andrew Torba: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
blatherard 8y ago
gab.com was founded as a safe space for the alt-right, going so far as to choose a frog as their mascot (a reference to "Pepe"). gab.com just got a heavy dose of bad publicity from the fact that the terrorist who murdered 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh spent a great deal of time on gab.
- koolba 8y ago
  I think you mean “Pepe” for the name of the frog.
  - blatherard 8y ago
    Oy, thanks, fixed.
- chris_wot 8y ago
  Are you being intentionally ironic when you say it is a “safe space” for the alt-right?
  - olliej 8y ago
    Yes - the alt-right and the nazis love to bash “safe spaces” - defined as being locations we’re you’re not aloud to be a bigot to people - but they freak out any time someone says something that might imply the non white people, lgbt people, women, etc should have rights. Hence they need a safe space where they can be surrounded by other white supremecests, nazis, and america hating shitheads.
    - chris_wot 8y ago
      Thanks, apologies that might have come across like I was attacking you, but I wasn't. I was genuinely curious because I sort of laughed then thought... hang on...
egypturnash 8y ago
Twitter started banning alt-righters. Alt-righters made a Twitter clone and called it "Gab". This weekend a dude shot up a synagogue in Pittsburgh. Guess what social network he'd been hanging out on making lots of posts about killing Jews?
- burfog 8y ago
  He was also on Twitter and Facebook. I guess those should be banned too. Remove the DNS, remove the merchant accounts for financial transactions, remove data center rights, etc. This is how gab.ai was attacked, so it is only fair.
bichiliad 8y ago
In short: there was a shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh. The shooter was actively antisemitic on Gab, which is known for tolerating extremism and hate speech. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shootings.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pitt... Note: I'm trying to be factual here, but know that Pittsburgh is my home town and I have a lot of feelings about this.
- olliej 8y ago
  Gab encourages extremism and racism. It was literally founded in response to other sites saying “no” to hosting such bile.

by warent 8y ago

anonymous5133 8y ago

Basically they created a platform for freedom of speech. The problem is that every crack pot on the internet basically flocked to the site to say very mean thing about other people. I think we all agree that hate speech is not good but outright silencing people is not the correct solution. If you want to eliminate hate speech then you need to confront the people doing the hate speech and argue with them about why they're wrong. Many other social media sites also suffer from massive amounts of hate speech as well.

belltaco 8y ago
> and argue with them about why they're wrong. It's hard to argue with people that are not even wrong. For example, some hold beliefs like "Women are subhuman and only exist to serve men and were created for that purpose." How do you even argue against something like that?
philjohn 8y ago
They haven't been silenced, a business they use has decided that they no longer want to do business with them. They can go and get another registrar, and if they need another payment provider, they can always set up one themselves, or start taking bitcoin.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> and argue with them about why they're wrong. Does that actually work?
- Faark 8y ago
  It can work. It doesn't help that simple imaginary solutions that probably blame some scape goat are easy to sell compared to complicated trade-offs that marginally reduce systemic issues our society has. The US political system practically allowing only two parties doesn't help, since it makes it easy to disregard everyone not with your team instead of having to engage with a large set of different opinions. But you quite often see people post something like "thanks for saving me from being an alt-righter" in the community of for example twitch-streamer Destiny. He did engage alt right youtubers in discussions, but recently scaled that back somewhat... apparently having a right wing mob hate you is a real thread to your livelihood as well. He says he has still no idea why he got his permanent twitter ban... so yeah, I'd love someone to look into that... Anyway, we are talking about the marketplace of ideas. As with any marketplace, you need marketing to sell the good (idea). Guess what kind of ideas are worth paying for? Probably the kind that will benefit those with lots of capital. And for that reason do real lefties think capitalism will eventually always end in fascism once disillusioned people demand change and only a communist revolution can save us. I always disregarded that as stupid, but the last few years make it more and more difficult...
- yongjik 8y ago
  If that worked, we'd be seeing constant stream of ex-neo-Nazis who were frequenting Gab, turned around by argument, and stopped being neo-Nazis. Because, after all, Gab would be one of the most effective places for "de-radicalization" operation: it's filled with people ready to be logically persuaded! Well, guess what, it doesn't happen.

manicdee 8y ago

Gab was founded by people who think that “freedom of speech” means they’re allowed to say what they want without consequence. They view being ushered out of the theatre for talking during a movie as censorship.

kamaal 8y ago
Adding to your point, there is whole generation of people who think 'freedom of speech' also means entitlement to get an audience. You can see this phenomenon in Indian right wing Twitter accounts, the talk is like: Don't I have freedom of speech? Why don't people listen to what I say? Why am I being deprived of audience? And like you said many people have a hard time coming to terms when faced with fact that 'freedom of speech' only gives you the freedom to talk, as such no immunity is provided for the consequences of the speech. This leads to all sorts of crazy situations, for example: Many people give like hate inciting speech to create a riot, and almost act like they indulged in a great tradition of democracy. On the very long term, things like 'freedom of speech', only make sense when they become a force for good. Another common abuse is comedians, cartoonists etc, in full conscious creating mischief and expect people to just happily put up with it.
nilkn 8y ago
I disagree. The idea behind sites like gab is that sites like Twitter are increasingly functioning like public spaces, but they exercise great ideological control over what one is allowed to say within those spaces. The folks behind gab and similar sites think that one should not be banned from Twitter -- that is quite different from speech without consequence. One can still be humiliated, shamed, and socially shunned in every way possible. You could still be fired from your job. You could also just be completely ignored -- merely not being banned from Twitter does not grant you even a single follower. To illustrate the issue, consider that one can be suspended or even banned from Twitter simply for stating (rightly or wrongly) that there are two genders. But Sarah Jeong-style tweets are considered perfectly fine, even though they are hateful and racist in many ways. I think these examples illustrate that what is at stake here is much more than just the ability of mass murderers to spew hatred. To make your analogy stronger, you would have to imagine a world in which theaters had become the standard place to talk and engage in discourse amongst tens of millions of people simultaneously.

snailmailman 8y ago

I think these articles are related. I hadn’t heard of gab until now either, but after the synagogue shooting these articles brought attention to the fact that gab was one of the social media sites that the shooter frequented. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661532688/a-look-at-gab-the-free-speech-social-site-where-synagogue-shooting-suspect-poste https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661532688/a-look-at-gab-the-f... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shootings.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pitt...

tptacek 8y ago
That NPR piece is particularly frustrating, because it leaves the impression that Gab sort of happened to become a white nationalist haven. But of course, Gab was founded by a dude who got kicked out of YC for harassing minorities and runs a Twitter account that posts anti-Semitic (among other things) tweets. There's nothing accidental about what Gab is.
- blatherard 8y ago
  Context for those unfamiliar with Andrew Torba: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...

blatherard 8y ago

gab.com was founded as a safe space for the alt-right, going so far as to choose a frog as their mascot (a reference to "Pepe"). gab.com just got a heavy dose of bad publicity from the fact that the terrorist who murdered 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh spent a great deal of time on gab.

koolba 8y ago
I think you mean “Pepe” for the name of the frog.
- blatherard 8y ago
  Oy, thanks, fixed.
chris_wot 8y ago
Are you being intentionally ironic when you say it is a “safe space” for the alt-right?
- olliej 8y ago
  Yes - the alt-right and the nazis love to bash “safe spaces” - defined as being locations we’re you’re not aloud to be a bigot to people - but they freak out any time someone says something that might imply the non white people, lgbt people, women, etc should have rights. Hence they need a safe space where they can be surrounded by other white supremecests, nazis, and america hating shitheads.
  - chris_wot 8y ago
    Thanks, apologies that might have come across like I was attacking you, but I wasn't. I was genuinely curious because I sort of laughed then thought... hang on...

egypturnash 8y ago

Twitter started banning alt-righters. Alt-righters made a Twitter clone and called it "Gab". This weekend a dude shot up a synagogue in Pittsburgh. Guess what social network he'd been hanging out on making lots of posts about killing Jews?

burfog 8y ago
He was also on Twitter and Facebook. I guess those should be banned too. Remove the DNS, remove the merchant accounts for financial transactions, remove data center rights, etc. This is how gab.ai was attacked, so it is only fair.

bichiliad 8y ago

In short: there was a shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh. The shooter was actively antisemitic on Gab, which is known for tolerating extremism and hate speech. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shootings.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/gab-robert-bowers-pitt... Note: I'm trying to be factual here, but know that Pittsburgh is my home town and I have a lot of feelings about this.

olliej 8y ago
Gab encourages extremism and racism. It was literally founded in response to other sites saying “no” to hosting such bile.