6 ms·

You simply want race to not be the cause. But all available evidence says it is. When people try to "fix" the evil racist computers by restricting the algorit

You simply want race to not be the cause. But all available evidence says it is. When people try to "fix" the evil racist computers by restricting the algorithm from using race, it simply finds proxies for race like "number of liquor stores per capita".

fossuser 8y ago
That’s because race is correlated with everything since racial divisions have a long history and share a lot of circumstances. It’s not because of the color of someone’s skin. It’s not even clear where racial lines are drawn and previously distinct “races” have disappeared into the general “Caucasian” label depending on time period. Your comments are why it’s a problem - people are unable to understand the difference and overfit to patterns in the data. Our learning shares a similar problem to ML. When you don’t correct for this it hurts people of that race and helps to perpetuate the imbalance - reinenforcing the historical data and increasing inequality.
- deialtrous 8y ago
  >It’s not because of the color of someone’s skin. I didn't say it was. I said it was because of race. Skin color is only one of hundreds of measurable objective racial differences. What does it say about your argument that it rests on such a terrible strawman? >It’s not even clear where racial lines are drawn It is abundantly clear: https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1398471221438.png https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1398471221438.png >Your comments are why it’s a problem You are simply stating there is a problem with no evidence to support your statement. Blacks commit more crime. The fact that they get arrested more is due to their committing more crime, not due to "racism". >reinenforcing the historical data and increasing inequality. There is no evidence to support your belief. Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem, which causes conflict and violence, far larger problems than a completely irrational belief that inequality is somehow unnatural and societally imposed.
  - zimpenfish 8y ago
    > It is abundantly clear https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9297%2818%2930363-X.pdf https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9297%2818%2930363-X.pdf "Genetics demonstrates that humans cannot be divided into biologically distinct subcategories." "Most human genetic variation is distributed as a gradient, so distinct boundaries between population groups cannot be accurately assigned." etc.etc.
    - deialtrous 8y ago
      https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/lewontins-fallacy/ https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/l... You can only make that claim by examining a single locus. When you examine multiple loci, human populations are clearly separated into distinct groups. The fact that this oft repeated myth is so commonly addressed that it is a named fallacy should be an indication that it warrants a little investigation into its accuracy. Here's a handy graph to help visualize how Lewontin's claim is dishonest and false: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0306987709005374-gr1.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S03069877090053... If you want to argue about the science, please research the subject first. There's no way anyone could do even a cursory bit of research and not come across this as it has been beaten to death, resurrected, and re-beaten to death.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - zimpenfish 8y ago
        I appreciate that it's a Claim To Authority but I'm going to take the collective word of the American Society of Human Genetics in 2018 over an anthropology student's blog post from 2009 without an astonishing amount of evidence to the contrary.

fossuser 8y ago

That’s because race is correlated with everything since racial divisions have a long history and share a lot of circumstances. It’s not because of the color of someone’s skin. It’s not even clear where racial lines are drawn and previously distinct “races” have disappeared into the general “Caucasian” label depending on time period. Your comments are why it’s a problem - people are unable to understand the difference and overfit to patterns in the data. Our learning shares a similar problem to ML. When you don’t correct for this it hurts people of that race and helps to perpetuate the imbalance - reinenforcing the historical data and increasing inequality.

deialtrous 8y ago
>It’s not because of the color of someone’s skin. I didn't say it was. I said it was because of race. Skin color is only one of hundreds of measurable objective racial differences. What does it say about your argument that it rests on such a terrible strawman? >It’s not even clear where racial lines are drawn It is abundantly clear: https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1398471221438.png https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1398471221438.png >Your comments are why it’s a problem You are simply stating there is a problem with no evidence to support your statement. Blacks commit more crime. The fact that they get arrested more is due to their committing more crime, not due to "racism". >reinenforcing the historical data and increasing inequality. There is no evidence to support your belief. Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem, which causes conflict and violence, far larger problems than a completely irrational belief that inequality is somehow unnatural and societally imposed.
- zimpenfish 8y ago
  > It is abundantly clear https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9297%2818%2930363-X.pdf https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9297%2818%2930363-X.pdf "Genetics demonstrates that humans cannot be divided into biologically distinct subcategories." "Most human genetic variation is distributed as a gradient, so distinct boundaries between population groups cannot be accurately assigned." etc.etc.
  - deialtrous 8y ago
    https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/lewontins-fallacy/ https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/l... You can only make that claim by examining a single locus. When you examine multiple loci, human populations are clearly separated into distinct groups. The fact that this oft repeated myth is so commonly addressed that it is a named fallacy should be an indication that it warrants a little investigation into its accuracy. Here's a handy graph to help visualize how Lewontin's claim is dishonest and false: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0306987709005374-gr1.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S03069877090053... If you want to argue about the science, please research the subject first. There's no way anyone could do even a cursory bit of research and not come across this as it has been beaten to death, resurrected, and re-beaten to death.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - zimpenfish 8y ago
      I appreciate that it's a Claim To Authority but I'm going to take the collective word of the American Society of Human Genetics in 2018 over an anthropology student's blog post from 2009 without an astonishing amount of evidence to the contrary.