10 ms·

>The problem is that the state and federal ID system is so fucked up that it disenfranchises voters. Until that system is fixed, you can't use it for voting. I

>The problem is that the state and federal ID system is so fucked up that it disenfranchises voters. Until that system is fixed, you can't use it for voting. I really think this is a giant myth. You're expecting me to believe that these minorities are living such horrid, opressed lives that they slave away every single day, and can't find a friend with a ride, or band together to make a group trip to get registered one day out of the year? Yeah, I've heard it, registration centers are closing in minority neighborhoods; but that doesn't mean that these people don't have places to register/get an ID within an hour or two by bus. The problem is ignorance and apathy, not voter suppression. Frankly, if someone is so uninterested/unwilling to participate in society that they can't be fucked to spend even 1 day out of the year to get a license, then they don't have any business making any decisions regarding out collective government.

erikpukinskis 8y ago
No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just saying you’re being disingenuous by saying it doesn’t disenfranchise any voters.
- tracker1 8y ago
  If you're so bad off that you can't make it to a place to get an Id, then you're probably too poor to make it to a place to register to vote too. There's no reason that state issued Ids can't be done via mobile platforms. Also, I'm not saying it doesn't disenfranchise voters, but the numbers are so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant.
  - adjkant 8y ago
    .5% of the entire US population is homeless, most of which are practically prohibited by law to obtain a valid ID. That's not statistically insignificant at all. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2017/05/15/without-id-homeless-trapped-in-vicious-cycle https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
    - masonic 8y ago
      most of which are practically prohibited by law to obtain a valid ID This is false, and your quoted source doesn't make that claim.
  - tareqak 8y ago
    If you went in to vote one year, but for one reason or another some way some how you were improperly registered and were unable to vote that day, then would you be alright if someone tried to console you with the words, "It's alright, you only have one vote which is so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant"? I understand that we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but I think we shouldn't let the good be the enemy of the perfect either. The symbolic act in being able to cast your vote and at least have the feeling that you have control over various governments that have such powerful sway over your life is powerful and maybe even cathartic.
    - tracker1 8y ago
      I'm just not sure that I understand the resistance to ANY attempt to require identification to vote. It doesn't have to be tethered to the ballot, and beyond that there could even be mobile id/registration platforms made available. The documents you present for ID shouldn't be any more than you should present to vote... it's just a shortcut. Voter fraud is a significant issue... in many districts significantly more than the number of people who would be unable to vote because of complications.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Voter fraud is a significant issue... No one, including partisan commissions established for no other purpose than validating this claim, has been able to provide evidence supporting this.
      - tareqak 8y ago
        If 1) There is a way for all Americans (including the poor, minorities, indigenous tribes, the homeless, and people without a physical address) to obtain this ID without any prejudice, opportunity cost, or privacy implications 2) There is significant political will to rolling out 1) Then I'm with you. If not as it currently is the case, then voter ID is a means of disenfranchising the vulnerable groups I mentioned in 1) and I'm opposed. Update: You might argue that I'm contradicting myself in that voter ID law would be good and ensuring that the groups I mentioned were protected in 1) would be asking for perfection. My rebuttal would be that any scheme that allows for legal disenfranchisement of otherwise legal voters is not good at all.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  >Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. >Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. For an entire year? You can't scrape together $20 and find a free afternoon once or twice in a decade? What percentage of the non homeless population actually lives this way and actually lives too far from a DMV?
  - tareqak 8y ago
    $20 + the lost wages spent traveling to the DMV, filling out the necessary paperwork, waiting in line, having your application processed, then traveling back is actually a lot of money for some people. And the above is just the best case, delays can happen because the applicant forgot to bring in some kind of evidence or another, which usually ends up meaning the entire afternoon is effectively wasted.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    What percentage is small enough for you to consider it “not voter suppression”?
adjkant 8y ago
Getting an ID goes far beyond just getting to the DMV. It also requires proof of address in many states, which immediately disqualifies the homeless. Many poor people also will not have access to documents such as birth certificates, SSN cards, and the like. An example: https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/id-cards.php https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/id-cards.php To apply for a photo ID card, you must: * Be a citizen or a legal resident of the U.S. * Be a resident of New York State. * Have your original birth certificate. * Have your Social Security card. * Be able to provide enough documents to verify your identity. This is not a myth, and affects magnitudes more people than there are cases of voter fraud.
- masonic 8y ago
  Those requirements are to get your first ID -- to establish who you are. Renewing or replacing an existing ID requires none of those other documents, generally. (I haven't even seen my SSID card in three decades)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

erikpukinskis 8y ago

No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just saying you’re being disingenuous by saying it doesn’t disenfranchise any voters.

tracker1 8y ago
If you're so bad off that you can't make it to a place to get an Id, then you're probably too poor to make it to a place to register to vote too. There's no reason that state issued Ids can't be done via mobile platforms. Also, I'm not saying it doesn't disenfranchise voters, but the numbers are so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant.
- adjkant 8y ago
  .5% of the entire US population is homeless, most of which are practically prohibited by law to obtain a valid ID. That's not statistically insignificant at all. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2017/05/15/without-id-homeless-trapped-in-vicious-cycle https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
  - masonic 8y ago
    most of which are practically prohibited by law to obtain a valid ID This is false, and your quoted source doesn't make that claim.
- tareqak 8y ago
  If you went in to vote one year, but for one reason or another some way some how you were improperly registered and were unable to vote that day, then would you be alright if someone tried to console you with the words, "It's alright, you only have one vote which is so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant"? I understand that we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but I think we shouldn't let the good be the enemy of the perfect either. The symbolic act in being able to cast your vote and at least have the feeling that you have control over various governments that have such powerful sway over your life is powerful and maybe even cathartic.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    I'm just not sure that I understand the resistance to ANY attempt to require identification to vote. It doesn't have to be tethered to the ballot, and beyond that there could even be mobile id/registration platforms made available. The documents you present for ID shouldn't be any more than you should present to vote... it's just a shortcut. Voter fraud is a significant issue... in many districts significantly more than the number of people who would be unable to vote because of complications.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Voter fraud is a significant issue... No one, including partisan commissions established for no other purpose than validating this claim, has been able to provide evidence supporting this.
    - tareqak 8y ago
      If 1) There is a way for all Americans (including the poor, minorities, indigenous tribes, the homeless, and people without a physical address) to obtain this ID without any prejudice, opportunity cost, or privacy implications 2) There is significant political will to rolling out 1) Then I'm with you. If not as it currently is the case, then voter ID is a means of disenfranchising the vulnerable groups I mentioned in 1) and I'm opposed. Update: You might argue that I'm contradicting myself in that voter ID law would be good and ensuring that the groups I mentioned were protected in 1) would be asking for perfection. My rebuttal would be that any scheme that allows for legal disenfranchisement of otherwise legal voters is not good at all.
fromthestart 8y ago
>Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. >Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. For an entire year? You can't scrape together $20 and find a free afternoon once or twice in a decade? What percentage of the non homeless population actually lives this way and actually lives too far from a DMV?
- tareqak 8y ago
  $20 + the lost wages spent traveling to the DMV, filling out the necessary paperwork, waiting in line, having your application processed, then traveling back is actually a lot of money for some people. And the above is just the best case, delays can happen because the applicant forgot to bring in some kind of evidence or another, which usually ends up meaning the entire afternoon is effectively wasted.
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  What percentage is small enough for you to consider it “not voter suppression”?

adjkant 8y ago

Getting an ID goes far beyond just getting to the DMV. It also requires proof of address in many states, which immediately disqualifies the homeless. Many poor people also will not have access to documents such as birth certificates, SSN cards, and the like. An example: https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/id-cards.php https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/id-cards.php To apply for a photo ID card, you must: * Be a citizen or a legal resident of the U.S. * Be a resident of New York State. * Have your original birth certificate. * Have your Social Security card. * Be able to provide enough documents to verify your identity. This is not a myth, and affects magnitudes more people than there are cases of voter fraud.

masonic 8y ago
Those requirements are to get your first ID -- to establish who you are. Renewing or replacing an existing ID requires none of those other documents, generally. (I haven't even seen my SSID card in three decades)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]