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All of these objections are terrible. "Hey, just use this miserable half-solution!" Cargo bikes? Rain gear? Heavy jackets? Nobody wants to live like that. Why

by scythe 8y ago

All of these objections are terrible. "Hey, just use this miserable half-solution!" Cargo bikes? Rain gear? Heavy jackets? Nobody wants to live like that. Why should the future be constantly uncomfortable? This is why I started hating urbanism: it's full of people whose entire argument is to deny the reality of other people's experience. Biking in the rain doesn't suck, crowded trains aren't uncomfortable, cargo bikes aren't exhausting, "wear a jacket", etc. We hate these things. I do not want to live in this world you describe. It sounds miserable.

lorenzhs 8y ago
I don't deny that sitting in a car in awful weather is more comfortable than cycling. I'm challenging cheap dismissals of cycling as a whole because the weather is awful for ten days of the year (unless you live in a place with daily tropical rainfalls or something), and I'm pointing out how people who live without a car deal with these things.
- clarry 8y ago
  > I'm challenging cheap dismissals of cycling as a whole Then you're in the wrong place. Nobody here dismissed cycling as a whole. I'm an avid cyclist but I also recognize the downsides of it, and I understand why cycling is not a stellar choice for many people. If you read my first message in this thread again, you'll see that I outlined a few examples of specific scenarios when cycling isn't a good choice. I live in a place with four seasons. There's way more awful weather than ten days a year. Winter -- with ice and snow -- lasts months. Autumn with lots of rain and mud and chilly weather lasts a couple months. Spring, featuring meltwater everywhere, loose mud everywhere, and then again ice everywhere becaus it got cold again and the meltwater & mud froze lasts long enough too. Summer isn't without its storms and rainy days. "Edge case after edge case" are something I regularly run into, every year. And the people around me do too. They are common enough that it is not unreasonable for people to consider a car.
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
>We hate these things. I do not want to live in this world you describe. It sounds miserable. The consequences of global warming sound miserable as well.
- scythe 8y ago
  They certainly do. But global warming isn't what's at issue here. Plenty of less drastic reforms (electric cars) offer the possibility of stopping global warming. I challenge you to ride a bike for 20 minutes in rain gear during a Florida thunderstorm in July.

by scythe 8y ago

lorenzhs 8y ago

I don't deny that sitting in a car in awful weather is more comfortable than cycling. I'm challenging cheap dismissals of cycling as a whole because the weather is awful for ten days of the year (unless you live in a place with daily tropical rainfalls or something), and I'm pointing out how people who live without a car deal with these things.

clarry 8y ago
> I'm challenging cheap dismissals of cycling as a whole Then you're in the wrong place. Nobody here dismissed cycling as a whole. I'm an avid cyclist but I also recognize the downsides of it, and I understand why cycling is not a stellar choice for many people. If you read my first message in this thread again, you'll see that I outlined a few examples of specific scenarios when cycling isn't a good choice. I live in a place with four seasons. There's way more awful weather than ten days a year. Winter -- with ice and snow -- lasts months. Autumn with lots of rain and mud and chilly weather lasts a couple months. Spring, featuring meltwater everywhere, loose mud everywhere, and then again ice everywhere becaus it got cold again and the meltwater & mud froze lasts long enough too. Summer isn't without its storms and rainy days. "Edge case after edge case" are something I regularly run into, every year. And the people around me do too. They are common enough that it is not unreasonable for people to consider a car.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

>We hate these things. I do not want to live in this world you describe. It sounds miserable. The consequences of global warming sound miserable as well.

scythe 8y ago
They certainly do. But global warming isn't what's at issue here. Plenty of less drastic reforms (electric cars) offer the possibility of stopping global warming. I challenge you to ride a bike for 20 minutes in rain gear during a Florida thunderstorm in July.