5 ms·

already porting everything away from Java

by tnr23 8y ago

simion314 8y ago
any GOOD reason why porting existing stuff that works ?
- halfastack 8y ago
  Doubt it honestly. Seems to me like the main group of people up in arms about it are those who never did serious Java development anyways.
  - twic 8y ago
    Comments on HN vary very widely in quality, but articles about Java or the JDK currently seem to attract particularly passionate low-quality comments. Does it somehow tickle the same neurons that Microsoft did back in the days of Micro$haft Winblowz 95?
    - dman 8y ago
      If you think Java has it bad, I invite you to read every thread about C++.
      - kjeetgill 8y ago
        Even if the hate is poor at least C++ gets quasi-technical hate. 90% of low effort complaints on HN are about Oracle v Google. I'd take morning and groaning about GC or boring verbosity language over that in a heart beat.
      - simion314 8y ago
        PHP projects also get a lot of hate from people that have no idea about PHP, they just learned that some noobs wrote bad code with it, it is not a pretty or cool language but only bad developers would port existing project from PHP just because the language is not cool.
- chris_wot 8y ago
  Because Java is an ecosystem that is dying, and the sooner you move away from it the less pain you will have in the long term.
  - simion314 8y ago
    So if you have years of developers hours n a Java project you throw it away and start over with cool new tech that may also be not cool when your port is done? As long as the current code works, you can add new features and fixes to it, there is no reason to change. For new projects you should use teh best tool for the job.
    - chris_wot 8y ago
      No, not necessarily the latest “cool tech”, just something other than Java. Just because you’ve spent a lot of money and time on the Java platform doesn’t mean continuing to throw resources at it isn’t a example of the sunk cost fallacy at work.
      - kjeetgill 8y ago
        Sunk Cost Fallacy? Sounds like the fallacy fallacy! [0][1]. Joking aside, that's incredibly misapplied. More seriously, I'm curious where you work or what parts of the industry you're privy to. It's everywhere from where I'm standing. Tons of companies are built on millions of jvms. LinkedIn, Google, Twitter, Amazon, etc. I know personally but I'm sure every third other tech company in the valley at least too. [0]: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
        chris_wot 8y ago
        I'll take your fallacy fallacy and raise you a fallacy fallacy fallacy. Just to remind you, there was an entire industry built around Flash and Silverlight too. The people responding to me seem to think I'm advocating a quick rewrite (whatever that means), but all I'm saying is that from where I stand Java will not last in the long term without serious changes within Oracle. It would be better to have a transition plan now than no transition plan on a dying platform. I was sort of expecting to be flamed, but I can assure you I'm not interested in revealing to flamers where I work...
sheeshkebab 8y ago
To what if don’t mind asking?
- virmundi 8y ago
  I'm moving to Go, as much as I dislike the language. Java is bulky. I need to buy servers from Linode, but on a budget. Because Java 11 is not supported on the alpine docker, the apps take up 512 MB even with stack set to 128k and heap at 64m. I can do the same systems in Go for a fraction of the sitting still memory consumption. I also get better performance/MB of RAM. Add to this that Spring is becoming a sprawling behemoth with massively outdated tutorials lurking in the top results of Google. At this point I wanted something that was easy, GC'ed, with good tooling. That's Go. DLang looked promising, but it's not easy. It also suffers from the out-of-date tutorials and books issue (my D book still says I have to pick between Pheobos and Tango collections). C++ seemed like overkill. Go provides a simple binary with a simple runtime with a simple RAM pattern. I do like Java. I know it well. I'm literally typing this with a Java Ring on (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAVA-ONE-Promo-/300495374337 https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAV...). Sadly, the JVM at this point doesn't fit my needs. Go is pretty terrible in some of aspects, errors and the way the community decides to carve files up, and the annoying way functions on structures float freely within a file, but I couldn't find another language that compiled to a binary, was simple, and had good library support for threading (so OCAMLs out)and RabbitMQ.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    I suppose you ruled out Rust because of the lack of simplicity?
    - kjeetgill 8y ago
      The choice for between them is like asking, "Do I start my project today or do I learn Rust and start it in 3-6 weeks?" If you don't already know Rust I'd never recommend it for a project from a "your requirements meet its strengths" perspective. Python or Go you can pick up as you go pretty easily. Even Java can annoying if you're new just getting set up with Maven and Intellij. Rust is on my "Things I'm Excited to Sit Down and Learn" list but it's not something you'd pick up in 2 days. Learning Rust is a project unto itself.
tannhaeuser 8y ago
After almost 20 years, I've too moved away from Java for personal projects years ago. But I'm doing this just because Java has become boring, and I've always preferred natively compiled languages anyway. I can't see anything wrong with how Oracle has handled this. OpenJDK is the reference implementation, and is licensed under the GPL with classpath exception. What else is Oracle supposed to do?
- wallstop 8y ago
  Relevant - http://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology http://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology

already porting everything away from Java

by tnr23 8y ago

already porting everything away from Java

simion314 8y ago

any GOOD reason why porting existing stuff that works ?

halfastack 8y ago
Doubt it honestly. Seems to me like the main group of people up in arms about it are those who never did serious Java development anyways.
- twic 8y ago
  Comments on HN vary very widely in quality, but articles about Java or the JDK currently seem to attract particularly passionate low-quality comments. Does it somehow tickle the same neurons that Microsoft did back in the days of Micro$haft Winblowz 95?
  - dman 8y ago
    If you think Java has it bad, I invite you to read every thread about C++.
    - kjeetgill 8y ago
      Even if the hate is poor at least C++ gets quasi-technical hate. 90% of low effort complaints on HN are about Oracle v Google. I'd take morning and groaning about GC or boring verbosity language over that in a heart beat.
    - simion314 8y ago
      PHP projects also get a lot of hate from people that have no idea about PHP, they just learned that some noobs wrote bad code with it, it is not a pretty or cool language but only bad developers would port existing project from PHP just because the language is not cool.
chris_wot 8y ago
Because Java is an ecosystem that is dying, and the sooner you move away from it the less pain you will have in the long term.
- simion314 8y ago
  So if you have years of developers hours n a Java project you throw it away and start over with cool new tech that may also be not cool when your port is done? As long as the current code works, you can add new features and fixes to it, there is no reason to change. For new projects you should use teh best tool for the job.
  - chris_wot 8y ago
    No, not necessarily the latest “cool tech”, just something other than Java. Just because you’ve spent a lot of money and time on the Java platform doesn’t mean continuing to throw resources at it isn’t a example of the sunk cost fallacy at work.
    - kjeetgill 8y ago
      Sunk Cost Fallacy? Sounds like the fallacy fallacy! [0][1]. Joking aside, that's incredibly misapplied. More seriously, I'm curious where you work or what parts of the industry you're privy to. It's everywhere from where I'm standing. Tons of companies are built on millions of jvms. LinkedIn, Google, Twitter, Amazon, etc. I know personally but I'm sure every third other tech company in the valley at least too. [0]: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
      - chris_wot 8y ago
        I'll take your fallacy fallacy and raise you a fallacy fallacy fallacy. Just to remind you, there was an entire industry built around Flash and Silverlight too. The people responding to me seem to think I'm advocating a quick rewrite (whatever that means), but all I'm saying is that from where I stand Java will not last in the long term without serious changes within Oracle. It would be better to have a transition plan now than no transition plan on a dying platform. I was sort of expecting to be flamed, but I can assure you I'm not interested in revealing to flamers where I work...

sheeshkebab 8y ago

To what if don’t mind asking?

virmundi 8y ago
I'm moving to Go, as much as I dislike the language. Java is bulky. I need to buy servers from Linode, but on a budget. Because Java 11 is not supported on the alpine docker, the apps take up 512 MB even with stack set to 128k and heap at 64m. I can do the same systems in Go for a fraction of the sitting still memory consumption. I also get better performance/MB of RAM. Add to this that Spring is becoming a sprawling behemoth with massively outdated tutorials lurking in the top results of Google. At this point I wanted something that was easy, GC'ed, with good tooling. That's Go. DLang looked promising, but it's not easy. It also suffers from the out-of-date tutorials and books issue (my D book still says I have to pick between Pheobos and Tango collections). C++ seemed like overkill. Go provides a simple binary with a simple runtime with a simple RAM pattern. I do like Java. I know it well. I'm literally typing this with a Java Ring on (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAVA-ONE-Promo-/300495374337 https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAV...). Sadly, the JVM at this point doesn't fit my needs. Go is pretty terrible in some of aspects, errors and the way the community decides to carve files up, and the annoying way functions on structures float freely within a file, but I couldn't find another language that compiled to a binary, was simple, and had good library support for threading (so OCAMLs out)and RabbitMQ.
- nine_k 8y ago
  I suppose you ruled out Rust because of the lack of simplicity?
  - kjeetgill 8y ago
    The choice for between them is like asking, "Do I start my project today or do I learn Rust and start it in 3-6 weeks?" If you don't already know Rust I'd never recommend it for a project from a "your requirements meet its strengths" perspective. Python or Go you can pick up as you go pretty easily. Even Java can annoying if you're new just getting set up with Maven and Intellij. Rust is on my "Things I'm Excited to Sit Down and Learn" list but it's not something you'd pick up in 2 days. Learning Rust is a project unto itself.

tannhaeuser 8y ago

After almost 20 years, I've too moved away from Java for personal projects years ago. But I'm doing this just because Java has become boring, and I've always preferred natively compiled languages anyway. I can't see anything wrong with how Oracle has handled this. OpenJDK is the reference implementation, and is licensed under the GPL with classpath exception. What else is Oracle supposed to do?

wallstop 8y ago
Relevant - http://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology http://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology