7 ms·

One of the biggest complaint I have been hearing is that scooters take space on sidewalks, and we are so used to cars that we don’t see that cars not only also

• eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
  I agree and disagree. Cars are in spaces engineered and designed for cars. Scooters have been tossed into a space made for slow human movement so they’re dangerous in operation and a nuisance at rest (I often see them parked in the middle of the sidewalk).
• godzillabrennus 8y ago
  Scooters = making money Homeless drug addicts = Losing money Hence why San Francisco did something about the scooters. So sad that it’s now becoming known globally as poop city.
  • drb91 8y ago
    It’s easy to describe SF as far worse than a “poop city”, which is frankly overblown anyway. Maybe “the city where the rich are content to listen to people die on their doorstep”.
    • graeme 8y ago
      The SV people I follow on twitter don't seem too content. A bit part of the issue is lack of shelters, which aren't built to to limited funding or zoning restrictions, correct? SF doesn't actually have more homeless per capita, they just have more unsheltered people. And most come from the bay area. I don't know the exact cause of the problem, but if it was a problem money could solve on its own it would have been done already. The homelessness issue in SF is pereniall bad press for tech companies.
      • wilde 8y ago
        I’m not sure the companies see it that way. There’s money but it’s going to protect their tax breaks. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/10/san-francisco-prop-c-homeless-ballot-measure/573358/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/10/san-francisco-prop-c-...
      • coldtea 8y ago
        >The SV people I follow on twitter don't seem too content. Actions show that, not lip service.
        • WillPostForFood 8y ago
          And talk about literally self selected.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    • thatswrong0 8y ago
      It’s really not overblown. I live downtown.
      • drb91 8y ago
        Me too! But there are dogs and homeless people all over; poop management issues are really not unique to SF. I am in Germany at the moment and my poop-dodging skills are still in high use.
        • thatswrong0 8y ago
          Compared to other major American cities like Chicago or NYC though, it’s really really bad. It’s not even close. The number of times I’ve seen people actively shitting in front of me is way too damn high.
          • drb91 8y ago
            Homeless? Sure, why not. Shitting in front of me? The world is ending.
  • ido 8y ago
    Serious question from semi-frequent visitor to SF: I come every couple of years for a conference in downtown SF (Moscone Center) and always stay a whole week (so I can walk around town before/after the conference - usually going north and west towards the shore/golden gate bridge). I have not throughout the years noticed the supposed infestation of human faeces. I see a lot of homeless people, but not more than, say, Berlin. And I would say the parts of the city I walk through (and especially the parks!) are actually cleaner than Berlin (and Berlin is not that dirty). Am I just not staying/walking through the really bad parts? Or missing something else? Or does it just take longer exposure to notice?
    • ido 8y ago
      BTW this is the park that I was thinking about: https://goo.gl/maps/XDYaADoK7662 https://goo.gl/maps/XDYaADoK7662 And I would venture a guess that NO parks within anywhere remotely central locations in Berlin are as clean as this one - not just no used needles/broken bottles but not even "pedestrian" litter like thrown packaging or paper. I don't think you would even commonly find cigarette butts on the grass.
      • et-al 8y ago
        Yerba Buena Gardens is more of a corporate garden. Check out all the rules they have: https://ybgfestival.org/visitor-info/#rules https://ybgfestival.org/visitor-info/#rules Basically don't do anything but sit, eat your lunch, and look at your phone. The amount of staff people there during the daytime is unlike any other park in SF.
        • ido 8y ago
          Ok fair enough! I didn't know that, it was just the nearest park to Moscone so I assumed this is what public parks look like in downtown SF.
    • TACIXAT 8y ago
      I think you might just not be tuned into it. I've gone into the city 3 times since moving to San Jose and I've seen it every time. My girlfriend just did an interview in SF and the building she was interviewing at had feces smeared on the window.
  • loceng 8y ago
    "Homeless drug addicts = Losing money" Imagine drug dealers actually cared about using some of their profits to take care of people, and hoping that they maintain the use of their drugs - helping the user become more productive, have more money, therefore be able to buy more drugs.. I suppose that's what legalizing drug use is all about, bringing it into the public eye, and allowing government and other health services more access to people to help them.
    • blfr 8y ago
      Turning drug addicts into serfs like in Interstate 60[1]. Perhaps it would be an improvement but doesn't seem like a desirable end goal. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165832/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165832/
• jackvalentine 8y ago
  Right? Remove one car spot on each street for dedicated hire bike/scooter parking.
  • agumonkey 8y ago
    how many scooters can one fit into a single parking spot 10 ? 20 ?
    • pavel_lishin 8y ago
      More than one.
    • lostapathy 8y ago
      Typical electric rental scootere? Like 150, with a simple rack you can stack them like cordwood.
• loceng 8y ago
  I wonder are the scooter users (or the companies renting them) going to pay for changing parking spaces into scooter parking spaces - or is general society going to fit that bill if it ever comes? Likewise, something I rarely seen is the indirect cost of the reduced safety/increased accidents/collisions related to scooter use brought up as part of the big picture; who's paying for that depends on each country's current state of healthcare.
  • amanaplanacanal 8y ago
    Hmmm. Who paid for the car parking spaces? Probably the city. I'm not sure why this should be any different.
    • loceng 8y ago
      It's a question to bring up a conversation relating to costs. What if scooters are a fad? What if autonomous vehicles eventually make the cost of transport less for due to the added cost of having to pay people to pickup and move the scooters back to their high demand pickup locations? There's further analysis that could go into this - to then decide if or when it is a reasonable idea to cover the cost. Another consideration/question is that I believe in many places the tax on gas helps pay for infrastructure, and I don't know if electric vehicles have this tax to cover the same road-related costs.
• e40 8y ago
  One of the biggest complaint I have been hearing is that scooters take space on sidewalks As a 4+ mile/day pedestrian, the biggest complaint I have is many of them are ridden on the sidewalk. I've had too many close calls to count. I can't wait for the rainy season to start, so I won't need to worry about them anymore. In CA, there is a state law that prevents them from being ridden on the sidewalk, yet the police in my city won't enforce it. Mayor told them "hands off" and near as I can tell, the Mayor is working a deal with the scooter companies. Money over safety. Disgusting.
  • therealdrag0 8y ago
    It's pretty scary to ride bike/scooter next to cars. Seems like a much better compromise to ride on the sidewalk when uncomfortable than the alternative. There just needs to be some sort of enforcement against ass-holery for those riding.
    • e40 8y ago
      I suspect you haven't spend time on the sidewalk with scooters whizzing around you. They are not safe, and cannot be (on the sidewalk). Pedestrians do not have lanes. When I step around the dog crap in front of me, I could be hit be a scooter operator not giving me enough space for my maneuver.
      • m4x 8y ago
        > They are not safe, and cannot be (on the sidewalk) This is a strange thing to say. It's clearly false, and the alternative (putting them on the road) is clearly less safe. I do think that the current model where Bird etc allow new users to jump on and go is problematic. It will probably work fine in the future when everybody knows how you are expected to ride them (i.e. full speed on the foot path is not cool), but at the moment things are a bit of a free for all. There's too much excitement when you get on for the first time, and no experienced riders to cool you down.
        • e40 8y ago
• wpietri 8y ago
  It is true that cars are currently worse offenders than scooters. But I commend San Francisco for catching this problem while it's still small. Private cars are at least used and placed by individuals. (As are private scooters, which nobody objects to.) Companies have no intrinsic right to convert public space to their place of business. Asking them to get a permit and limiting the amount of public space given for free to venture-funded companies seems fine by me. If you're serious about fighting the problem of excess space devoted to cars, then you'll surely be strongly for establishing the principle that the city should work to make public space for the public. I also strongly question your theory that the SF's transportation agency could or should be working on drug abuse and homelessness. I think San Francisco employs enough people that different departments can and should stick to what they're tasked with..