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This is an interesting topic; The automation removed a lot of the human interaction, creating a better experience for the customer. In the short term. Howeve

by bfung 8y ago

This is an interesting topic; The automation removed a lot of the human interaction, creating a better experience for the customer. In the short term. However, by removing a lot of humans from the shopping interactions, it allows the removed humans to never learn from their mistakes, to stay isolated in their own views. Will this actually make racism better or worse in the long run, as there isn't automation to "fix" these social problems of ours, at least in the US.

moonka 8y ago
>However, by removing a lot of humans from the shopping interactions, it allows the removed humans to never learn from their mistakes, to stay isolated in their own views. Relying on shopping interactions to teach these humans places a huge burden on the people they make these mistakes on. Sometimes I'm not looking to be a teachable moment, sometimes I just want to get my shopping done (or get a cab etc).
- bfung 8y ago
  Sure, not every moment in life is a teachable or eureka moment. But the more chances people have to interact, the more chances to gain a better understanding of each other. Without even the opportunity to interact, that divide and chance to learn is zero. Maybe the 1 out of 100 times, you go to the supermarket, and are feeling good, and feel like just saying hi and do some small talk to the cashier... while it may not change the world instantly, incremental progress is better than lack of it.
  - salvar 8y ago
    I agree with the benefits of what you describe in the last paragraph. But for these opportunities for people to learn by realizing that their unfair profiling of customers based on the color of their skin is wrong... at what point do you consider the cost of the profilee in enduring these teachable moments again and again and again through their life?
chongli 8y ago
I think we're a lot better off than we were in prior centuries, as far as racism goes. There's still a long way to go, though. Automation can make racism worse, I think. I look at the intense polarization that seems to be springing out of the Facebook and YouTube recommendation algorithms and I'm filled with dismay. Perhaps a lot of the fringe extremists have been around for a long time but these websites give them tools to connect with and win new recruits.
salvar 8y ago
I think it's better in the short term, and the long term. Those removed humans have plenty of other opportunities to address their prejudices, and profiling innocent shoppers based on their skin color isn't actually necessary.
- bfung 8y ago
  >Those removed humans have plenty of other opportunities to address their prejudices Where do they have the opportunity to address their prejudices? How can they understand if they never have the chance to talk to the other side, or have the other side be able to engage them? With the automation, the semi-forced interaction is gone. Humans are "lazy" by default and those situations won't happen.
  - salvar 8y ago
    > How can they understand if they never have the chance to talk to the other side Are you saying that profiling people in stores is literally the only chance people have to talk to "the other side"? How about they use any other available opportunity for human interaction in any other situation in their lives to address their prejudices?
    - bfung 8y ago
      What are other opportunities where people are semi-forced to interact (that don't normally interact with each other)? How do the other opportunities make the profiler no longer profiling when the situation is out of a store? I am not saying profiling people in stores is the only chance, as the profiling is already a base assumption. I'm saying the automation is taking away more semi-forced interaction point. My premise is that it's bad, as people can only really understand each other when they interact. And most people don't actively interact. The supermarket/shopping place is one place that generally is forced interaction.
      - salvar 8y ago
        Have you considered the cost of the profilee in these cases? What if they don't want to be the subject of a teachable moment for some prejudiced person? Would you tell them that they are wrong?
fggdgvcdderr 8y ago
Except it is probably the other way round: shop employees in some shops learn to be extra watchful of black customers, because they have experienced black customers stealing. So with Amazon Go, they'll not become racist in the first place.

by bfung 8y ago

moonka 8y ago

>However, by removing a lot of humans from the shopping interactions, it allows the removed humans to never learn from their mistakes, to stay isolated in their own views. Relying on shopping interactions to teach these humans places a huge burden on the people they make these mistakes on. Sometimes I'm not looking to be a teachable moment, sometimes I just want to get my shopping done (or get a cab etc).

bfung 8y ago
Sure, not every moment in life is a teachable or eureka moment. But the more chances people have to interact, the more chances to gain a better understanding of each other. Without even the opportunity to interact, that divide and chance to learn is zero. Maybe the 1 out of 100 times, you go to the supermarket, and are feeling good, and feel like just saying hi and do some small talk to the cashier... while it may not change the world instantly, incremental progress is better than lack of it.
- salvar 8y ago
  I agree with the benefits of what you describe in the last paragraph. But for these opportunities for people to learn by realizing that their unfair profiling of customers based on the color of their skin is wrong... at what point do you consider the cost of the profilee in enduring these teachable moments again and again and again through their life?

chongli 8y ago

I think we're a lot better off than we were in prior centuries, as far as racism goes. There's still a long way to go, though. Automation can make racism worse, I think. I look at the intense polarization that seems to be springing out of the Facebook and YouTube recommendation algorithms and I'm filled with dismay. Perhaps a lot of the fringe extremists have been around for a long time but these websites give them tools to connect with and win new recruits.

salvar 8y ago

I think it's better in the short term, and the long term. Those removed humans have plenty of other opportunities to address their prejudices, and profiling innocent shoppers based on their skin color isn't actually necessary.

bfung 8y ago
>Those removed humans have plenty of other opportunities to address their prejudices Where do they have the opportunity to address their prejudices? How can they understand if they never have the chance to talk to the other side, or have the other side be able to engage them? With the automation, the semi-forced interaction is gone. Humans are "lazy" by default and those situations won't happen.
- salvar 8y ago
  > How can they understand if they never have the chance to talk to the other side Are you saying that profiling people in stores is literally the only chance people have to talk to "the other side"? How about they use any other available opportunity for human interaction in any other situation in their lives to address their prejudices?
  - bfung 8y ago
    What are other opportunities where people are semi-forced to interact (that don't normally interact with each other)? How do the other opportunities make the profiler no longer profiling when the situation is out of a store? I am not saying profiling people in stores is the only chance, as the profiling is already a base assumption. I'm saying the automation is taking away more semi-forced interaction point. My premise is that it's bad, as people can only really understand each other when they interact. And most people don't actively interact. The supermarket/shopping place is one place that generally is forced interaction.
    - salvar 8y ago
      Have you considered the cost of the profilee in these cases? What if they don't want to be the subject of a teachable moment for some prejudiced person? Would you tell them that they are wrong?

fggdgvcdderr 8y ago

Except it is probably the other way round: shop employees in some shops learn to be extra watchful of black customers, because they have experienced black customers stealing. So with Amazon Go, they'll not become racist in the first place.