5 ms·

“Last week the operations team commanded Hubble to perform numerous maneuvers, or turns, and switched the gyro between different operational modes, which succes

by gdubs 8y ago

“Last week the operations team commanded Hubble to perform numerous maneuvers, or turns, and switched the gyro between different operational modes, which successfully cleared what was believed to be blockage between components inside the gyro” And here I am on Earth, barely capable of debugging JavaScript code.

TomK32 8y ago
They've probably done a "bang it with a hammer" equivalent.
rzzzt 8y ago
I shake my phone vigorously if the small motor gets stuck and stops buzzing.
- ByThyGrace 8y ago
  And it works, doesn't it?
  - rzzzt 8y ago
    Yes, it has diagnostic software which allows you to run the motor constantly. I switch it on and shake it about until it gets unstuck, run it for a few more seconds, and it's good for another three months or so.
wereHamster 8y ago
> And here I am on Earth, barely capable of debugging JavaScript code. If as much education was required of software engineers as it is from people who work on the Hubble telescope then you wouldn't have any troubles debugging JavaScript.
- protomyth 8y ago
  If JavaScript was specified to the same degree as the Hubble telescope then the OP wouldn't have had a problem. Blaming gdubs's education is a bit problematic.
  - TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
    The ECMAScript spec is actually quite thorough and freely available to read online. In addition, it has a very large suite of tests to check for compliance. I don't think there's any other language with as many independent production-quality implementations. In what way do you think it could be better specified?
    - protomyth 8y ago
      Anywhere the spec says "implementation-dependent" or "behavior is undefined" could be fully specified. Some might say its impractical, but given the effort folks but into the hardware and software of a NASA project, you can really see the difference.
    - jjuhl 8y ago
      "I don't think there's any other language with as many independent production-quality implementations." - C++?
      - TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
        Yeah, it looks like you might be right. I just looked it up and there's a ton of C++ compilers I'd never heard of before.
        Tomte 8y ago
        Sure, but the number might fool you. Not every C++ compiler is standards-compliant, and at least on the PC side, many of the good compilers bought the frontend from the Edison Design Group and focussed on the backend.
- vanattab 8y ago
  I would be willing to bet that there are many engineers on the Hubble project that have and struggled debugging java script themselves.
- flyinglizard 8y ago
  Nothing to do with education; it’s all about operating procedures. Hubble has a large and well funded team behind it that generally operates on much longer timelines. Everything is engineered and documented to a tee. Hubble mission spans around 30 years now, from concept and until today; very possible that for some people, Hubble is the only thing they experienced in their profession. Obviously such measures would be very much impractical outside of NASA.
jrootabega 8y ago
It's also fun to compare programming to surgery, where they work for hours straight with no backup on a production system that is actively trying to die.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  The universe is transactional.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    and doesn't have a rollback to safe point.
    - agumonkey 8y ago
      You need to compile with --multiverse
- elboru 8y ago
  It has always amazed how hard it must be to debug an issue in a human being, you need to check A, B, and C, but if you check C your human will be scared since it could indicate your human has cancer, if you check B it will be expensive since it involves a lot of studies, you can also check with A giving some medicament but it also is expensive and maybe other people needed more. So you end up testing all three, but none gave you any feedback, the issue must be somewhere else, those tests took months and it doesn’t help you had been testing hundreds of other humans and for each case you must understand the whole context, so you have to start again, meanwhile your human starts to think you are not capable since you haven’t fixed his problem so he starts looking for a “second opinion”.
  - jrootabega 8y ago
    Perfect explanation for why for House, M.D. was so entertaining.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
taf2 8y ago
with your javascript you can cmd+r over and over again until you figure it out. with the hubble they had to simulate and hypothesize/imagine possible solutions. It's the same process just a different medium for solving problems and they generally get only 1 chance to press cmd+r
kabdib 8y ago
Henry S F Cooper's book _The Evening Star_ describes similar solar-system-scale distance debugging of a race condition on the Magellan Venus orbiter. Pretty tense stuff; the stakes are high, the tools and insight to the actual problems are poor, and if you screw up badly enough you wind up with a dead spacecraft.

by gdubs 8y ago

TomK32 8y ago

They've probably done a "bang it with a hammer" equivalent.

rzzzt 8y ago

I shake my phone vigorously if the small motor gets stuck and stops buzzing.

ByThyGrace 8y ago
And it works, doesn't it?
- rzzzt 8y ago
  Yes, it has diagnostic software which allows you to run the motor constantly. I switch it on and shake it about until it gets unstuck, run it for a few more seconds, and it's good for another three months or so.

wereHamster 8y ago

> And here I am on Earth, barely capable of debugging JavaScript code. If as much education was required of software engineers as it is from people who work on the Hubble telescope then you wouldn't have any troubles debugging JavaScript.

protomyth 8y ago
If JavaScript was specified to the same degree as the Hubble telescope then the OP wouldn't have had a problem. Blaming gdubs's education is a bit problematic.
- TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
  The ECMAScript spec is actually quite thorough and freely available to read online. In addition, it has a very large suite of tests to check for compliance. I don't think there's any other language with as many independent production-quality implementations. In what way do you think it could be better specified?
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Anywhere the spec says "implementation-dependent" or "behavior is undefined" could be fully specified. Some might say its impractical, but given the effort folks but into the hardware and software of a NASA project, you can really see the difference.
  - jjuhl 8y ago
    "I don't think there's any other language with as many independent production-quality implementations." - C++?
    - TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
      Yeah, it looks like you might be right. I just looked it up and there's a ton of C++ compilers I'd never heard of before.
      - Tomte 8y ago
        Sure, but the number might fool you. Not every C++ compiler is standards-compliant, and at least on the PC side, many of the good compilers bought the frontend from the Edison Design Group and focussed on the backend.
vanattab 8y ago
I would be willing to bet that there are many engineers on the Hubble project that have and struggled debugging java script themselves.
flyinglizard 8y ago
Nothing to do with education; it’s all about operating procedures. Hubble has a large and well funded team behind it that generally operates on much longer timelines. Everything is engineered and documented to a tee. Hubble mission spans around 30 years now, from concept and until today; very possible that for some people, Hubble is the only thing they experienced in their profession. Obviously such measures would be very much impractical outside of NASA.

jrootabega 8y ago

It's also fun to compare programming to surgery, where they work for hours straight with no backup on a production system that is actively trying to die.

agumonkey 8y ago
The universe is transactional.
- protomyth 8y ago
  and doesn't have a rollback to safe point.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    You need to compile with --multiverse
elboru 8y ago
It has always amazed how hard it must be to debug an issue in a human being, you need to check A, B, and C, but if you check C your human will be scared since it could indicate your human has cancer, if you check B it will be expensive since it involves a lot of studies, you can also check with A giving some medicament but it also is expensive and maybe other people needed more. So you end up testing all three, but none gave you any feedback, the issue must be somewhere else, those tests took months and it doesn’t help you had been testing hundreds of other humans and for each case you must understand the whole context, so you have to start again, meanwhile your human starts to think you are not capable since you haven’t fixed his problem so he starts looking for a “second opinion”.
- jrootabega 8y ago
  Perfect explanation for why for House, M.D. was so entertaining.
hutzlibu 8y ago

taf2 8y ago

with your javascript you can cmd+r over and over again until you figure it out. with the hubble they had to simulate and hypothesize/imagine possible solutions. It's the same process just a different medium for solving problems and they generally get only 1 chance to press cmd+r

kabdib 8y ago

Henry S F Cooper's book _The Evening Star_ describes similar solar-system-scale distance debugging of a race condition on the Magellan Venus orbiter. Pretty tense stuff; the stakes are high, the tools and insight to the actual problems are poor, and if you screw up badly enough you wind up with a dead spacecraft.