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The Future of Java SE [video]
- koiz 8y agoI wish the future of java was less Oracle.
- kjeetgill 8y agoIt is and it has been? They've open sourced a ton just this last year removing most differences between OracleJDK and OpenJDK. I think it's just a few small compatibility variences left.
- haglin 8y agoCan you elaborate? I don't understand what you mean. Oracle contributes patches to OpenJDK, for instance lambda support. Do you want less of that? Are the commits made by Oracle employees especially bad? It's not like you need to use the Oracle JDK. There are many different distros, just like Linux.
- Go0the0gophers 8y ago... is dead. Java RIP, thx Oracle.
- halfastack 8y ago> ... is now fully open sourced. Thx Oracle FTFY.
- pritambaral 8y agoOpen Source status matters little when the major copyright holder is a litigious Gorilla, especially one who claims even their APIs are copyrightable.
- severino 8y agoYou mean Oracle can one day start suing people for writing programs in Java and using the open source OpenJDK to run them?
- chris_wot 8y agoCorrect.
- severino 8y agoSo can everybody else, almost. I guess we should stop doing software altogether, to be safe.
- pritambaral 8y agoHypothetically, every car driver on the road can run people over. Doesn't mean we should treat drivers with a record of reckless and dangerous driving with the same caution as those without such a record.
- severino 8y agoThat's true, and that's why I said almost. But many popular languages have big companies behind, like Microsoft, Google or Apple. And we can find plenty of examples of unethical corporate tactics in all of them. But I think we should not restrict ourselves to languages like python or perl just because of hypothetical assumptions.
- pritambaral 8y ago> plenty of examples of unethical corporate tactics in all of them. I suspect you are not familiar with the exact nature of Oracle's behaviour. MS, Google, or Apple have not gone after their own paying customers (counting Android users as assets, not customers) with legal threats just to extract more money from locked-in customers, nor have they argued in the SCOTUS that APIs are copyrightable. There's "unethical behaviour", which is a wide spectrum, and then there's Oracle, which occupies a distinct area on the spectrum with few neighbours near it.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- twic 8y agoI did have a good giggle at the fact this was posted by someone whose username suggests they also stan for a general-purpose garbage-collected object-oriented language with limited expressivity devised and pushed by a giant tech company. Just a different, more brutally practical, one.
- vijaybritto 8y agoProject Loom looks pretty interesting!
- tnr23 8y agoalready porting everything away from Java
- simion314 8y agoany GOOD reason why porting existing stuff that works ?
- halfastack 8y agoDoubt it honestly. Seems to me like the main group of people up in arms about it are those who never did serious Java development anyways.
- twic 8y agoComments on HN vary very widely in quality, but articles about Java or the JDK currently seem to attract particularly passionate low-quality comments. Does it somehow tickle the same neurons that Microsoft did back in the days of Micro$haft Winblowz 95?
- dman 8y agoIf you think Java has it bad, I invite you to read every thread about C++.
- kjeetgill 8y agoEven if the hate is poor at least C++ gets quasi-technical hate. 90% of low effort complaints on HN are about Oracle v Google. I'd take morning and groaning about GC or boring verbosity language over that in a heart beat.
- simion314 8y agoPHP projects also get a lot of hate from people that have no idea about PHP, they just learned that some noobs wrote bad code with it, it is not a pretty or cool language but only bad developers would port existing project from PHP just because the language is not cool.
- sheeshkebab 8y agoInteresting road map - some features seem like would be moving java closer to go (walhalla, loom, Panama)
- watt 8y agoYes indeed. Hopefully with the jdk modularization (Project Jigsaw) done and out and GA, efforts will finally pick up steam on those modernization projects. Add GraalVM native image capability to that, and Java will be back to leading the pack again.
- vijaybritto 8y agoImo, The most important part is earning developer trust more than the feature set.
- discordance 8y agoThe roughly decade long copyright battle around Java API use has killed any interest I had in Java
- maaaats 8y agoWhy? (Or why should we care about your personal interest in java without any substantial information?)
- discordance 8y agoI don’t believe in software patents, and Oracle’s litigious history indicates they are a strong proponent for software patents. I loved working with Java/Spring at one time, but there are too many good alternatives and I choose to vote with my feet.
- pron 8y agoFYI, the company that extracted the most from Android through patent-related legal threats was Microsoft, that collected billions in patent royalties from Android vendors[1][2]. While more extensive, it generated less noise partly because the companies MS came after didn't have the same PR machine as the one Oracle came after... (a cynic would say that the result of the case was what would be expected from a battle between a company with a great legal department and a company with a great PR department). Large software companies (except MS) are far more often the target of patent infringement lawsuits/threats than the perpetrator. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2015/11/01/microsoft-android-patent-income/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2015/11/01/microsoft... [2]: https://www.howtogeek.com/183766/why-microsoft-makes-5-to-15-from-every-android-device-sold/ https://www.howtogeek.com/183766/why-microsoft-makes-5-to-15...
- mycall 8y agoMicrosoft has recently pledge their entire patent portfolio to the Linux system. That's not just the Linux kernel, but other packages built on it. I see this as a big change for them, since they need Linux on Azure.
- shadowmint 8y agoprotip: jump to minute 31 for the interesting stuff. The first 30 minutes is about the new release cycle, which is... hm.. quite dry, boring and covered extensively elsewhere.
- mothsonasloth 8y agoYea, its death by gantt chart
- rnikander 8y agoI wish they would add tail calls to the VM. It would really help functional programming. It's doable but apparently not considered a high priority.
- aardvark179 8y agoWe plan to they are on the list of things that will be looked at as part of project loom. It was originallly thought they would be closely related to continuations as they are both forms of non local return, but this hasn’t been the case so far.
- heelix 8y agoThe end of this year is going to be such a dumpster fire for us. I think I've got about a hundred developers with a mix of Linux, Mac, and Windows. The corporate overlords are mostly sticking to JDK 1.8, which is fine -- RHEL has a LTS for that on Linux. The developer desktops are all over the place right now, however. The jump from 8 to 9+, for those of saddled with legacy crap code, has been somewhat painful. Got to wonder how many years I'll be seeing a 8u191 (or whatever the last release is) on the windows/osx boxes.
- exabrial 8y agoCurious, Is the adoptjdk or openjdk not an option for some reason?
- kjeetgill 8y agoI'm looking forward to seeing what they do but right now my impression is that they're still getting on their feet. If you go to the page an select builds from the drop down half of them weren't available last I checked. They're new so I'd give them some space for maturation.
- heelix 8y agoOpenJDK is on the Linux servers and workstations. The options for OSX, for example, are less clear. Folks are trying to see what non-Oracle option might work on desktops/laptops.
- antpls 8y agoI tried to compile the JVM 9 on a Debian this weekend, just to give it a try. The openjdk's mercurial repository returned 500 HTTP-errors 9 times out of 10. After relaunching the clone command 50 times, I managed to fetch the sources. Total size of the source code with sub-projects dependencies : 1.5 GB. After that you have to further download a pre-compiled JVM to bootstrap the compilation, and install further debian packages such as X11 stuff (???). I looked at the Debian package's Makefile from the package maintainers, and then I gave up. The complexity, and especially the dependencies, of the JVM are outstanding. I guess some work groups are paid to work on Java, but it seems some sub-projects are staling, while some modern expected features are still not in the JVM. For example, it's difficult to see where GraalVM is in the grand scheme. Is it replacing several previous project? Is it competing with ongoing sub-projects? Will it be compatible with most projects? The problem I see with Java is : if people are not paid to work or develop it, I'm not sure people would continue to support the language and the stack, given the time and specific skills you have to invest in it. At that point, Java looks more like a research project than a production-ready tool.
- haglin 8y agoYou were unlucky, the hg server went down during the weekend http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk-dev/2018-October/002161.html http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk-dev/2018-October/... This doesn't happen often. It's definitely not a research project. There are many large companies who contribute to OpenJDK, for example Oracle, SAP, Red Hat, SAP, Google and Amazon https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11-together https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11...
- _old_dude_ 8y agoI think that hosting the jdk sources using a bunch of Python scripts on top of mercurial was a big mistake, or perhaps it was not a mistake when Java was opensourced more than 10 years ago, but it's a mistake now to not use gitlab/github. As you said the mercurial repository as stability issues, and when it works, it's super slow. Java need a previous version of java to bootstrap because javac is written in Java. And you don't need x11 if you build the headless version. For Graal, the goal is to replace c1 and c2 (the two JITs used by Hotspot and written in C) by Graal in order to have only one JIT written in Java. But Graal is competing with c2 which has tuned over two decades, so currently you can choose if you want to use c1/c2 or c1/Graal when running Java. We know that Twitter is running Graal in production, i've no more info on that.