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I wish. I'd pay a lot if someone would make a good e-version of a "boring" car like a Golf. No huge center-mounted display, no app store, no forced remote updat

I wish. I'd pay a lot if someone would make a good e-version of a "boring" car like a Golf. No huge center-mounted display, no app store, no forced remote updates, no DRM locking me out of reparing my own car. If they keep the sensors for partially automated driving as a better cruise control, I'm fine with that. Unfortunately, the current e-Golf is just a regular Golf poorly converted to electric, way too expensive and with not enough range.

LeoPanthera 8y ago
Sounds like the Nissan Leaf?
reacharavindh 8y ago
This. I'm also waiting for this. A Golf with electric range as much as a Tesla, with supercharging like charging capabilities will be the best...
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > A Golf with electric range as much as a Tesla, with supercharging like charging capabilities will be the best... VW's e-golf is advertised as having a 140 mile range. It's noticeably lower than Tesla's advertised range of 200 mile but as it's a city car designed for the european market I'm not sure it's relevant. I mean, in some european countries that's more than enough to drive through the entire nation.
  - fattire 8y ago
    The Model 3's advertised long range is 310 miles.
timcederman 8y ago
Which model? A couple of years ago I got an e-Golf and it's been pretty amazing. I say that as someone who owned 2 (petrol) Golfs prior. I got it cheaper than any previous Golf and it had more features too. I understand range anxiety, but the same holds (at the same price) with other marks (I've also owned a Leaf). What makes the e-Golf poorly converted and too expensive?
- captainmuon 8y ago
  I don't have a specific model in mind, but as somebody else posted the e-Golf has about half the range of the Tesla. Personally, I don't like the term range anxiety, it sounds like a fighting term from the gas car industry and also doesn't take people's worries seriously. My problem is completely different: If there was no Model S, I would be totally happy with an e-car with 140 miles range. But if I can get another car for a similar price with twice the range, I'm going to buy that instead. It shows to me that VW (like other established brands) is not doing the technically possible, but half-hartedly quickly making an electric car, just so they also have one. The e-Golf AFAIK uses the same platform as most VW (and Skoda etc.) cars, where they crammed the batteries in there where there was space. Teslas are designed from ground up for electric, and the whole car underbody is basically a battery.
  - timcederman 8y ago
    Wait - so you're basing your whole opinion on someone else's description of the range? The reduced range is partially a "where do we put the batteries" issue, but MOSTLY a price a issue. There's no way to price an e-Golf in a similar range to a 200+ mile range Tesla and not have it been $10k+ more than a regular Golf. Saying things like "it shows to me that VW is not doing the technically possible" without ANY informed opinion is embarrassing. edit: also, do you own any kind of electric car or are you just pontificating? Range anxiety is a real thing - literally the stress of "do I have enough electricity to get home"
_ph_ 8y ago
That is the one thing I give to VW: their first new electric car is going to be the NEO, which is basically a Golf done from scratch as an electric car. If they can get it into production numbers high enough for the promised prices, it could be the electric car for the masses.
bonestamp2 8y ago
> no DRM locking me out of reparing my own car That's going to be nearly impossible to avoid in the future. I do some software work for one automaker and every 2019+ model has a firewall on the data bus. It's not because they want to lock you out of repairing your car, it's because the pen testing and Defcon hacking has been accelerating over the past few years and they don't want headlines that say their cars can be hacked. That's bad for sales. They'll lose sales from guys like you too of course -- your concern is certainly valid, but more people are concerned about the security of their car than being able to repair it themselves.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  Why firewall prevents repair? IPtables on my Linux box does not prevent me from replacing a memory or resolder failed capacitor. It's like completely different layers.
  - bonestamp2 8y ago
    If you opened an ECU in your car, you could resolder a failed cap. There is nothing preventing you from doing that. The repairs it might prevent would be if you replaced an ECU that needs to be authorized to communicate over the bus. I can't speak for other automakers but at least in our case you don't have to go to a dealership if you don't want, there are third-party repair shops that are authorized to use our software for these kinds of repairs.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Oh, automakers are finally putting security on their wide-open Car Area Networks - like the one that let a hacker stop a reporter's car - and this you see as only a bad thing?
  - bonestamp2 8y ago
    Maybe you misunderstood me -- I don't think it's a bad thing. I think there are people who will think it's a bad thing and my comment is just stating what I've seen on the inside -- I've never once heard anyone talk about trying to lock out owners from doing their own repairs. Most of these people are owners themselves and their neighbors are owners, etc. From what I've seen, the firewall is to protect the car and its owner, not to prevent them from doing their own repairs (that is only a side effect from making the car more secure).
stephengillie 8y ago
I'm still looking for a plug-in Camry or Tacoma.
rqs 8y ago
Since we're here already ... Maybe also no smartphone door unlocking? I don't get it, why everybody start to build car like a smartphone now days?
tga 8y ago
Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, Chevy Bolt, and the list goes on -- all boring little EVs. The huge displays and app store are the exception, not the rule.

LeoPanthera 8y ago

Sounds like the Nissan Leaf?

reacharavindh 8y ago

This. I'm also waiting for this. A Golf with electric range as much as a Tesla, with supercharging like charging capabilities will be the best...

geezerjay 8y ago
> A Golf with electric range as much as a Tesla, with supercharging like charging capabilities will be the best... VW's e-golf is advertised as having a 140 mile range. It's noticeably lower than Tesla's advertised range of 200 mile but as it's a city car designed for the european market I'm not sure it's relevant. I mean, in some european countries that's more than enough to drive through the entire nation.
- fattire 8y ago
  The Model 3's advertised long range is 310 miles.

timcederman 8y ago

Which model? A couple of years ago I got an e-Golf and it's been pretty amazing. I say that as someone who owned 2 (petrol) Golfs prior. I got it cheaper than any previous Golf and it had more features too. I understand range anxiety, but the same holds (at the same price) with other marks (I've also owned a Leaf). What makes the e-Golf poorly converted and too expensive?

captainmuon 8y ago
I don't have a specific model in mind, but as somebody else posted the e-Golf has about half the range of the Tesla. Personally, I don't like the term range anxiety, it sounds like a fighting term from the gas car industry and also doesn't take people's worries seriously. My problem is completely different: If there was no Model S, I would be totally happy with an e-car with 140 miles range. But if I can get another car for a similar price with twice the range, I'm going to buy that instead. It shows to me that VW (like other established brands) is not doing the technically possible, but half-hartedly quickly making an electric car, just so they also have one. The e-Golf AFAIK uses the same platform as most VW (and Skoda etc.) cars, where they crammed the batteries in there where there was space. Teslas are designed from ground up for electric, and the whole car underbody is basically a battery.
- timcederman 8y ago
  Wait - so you're basing your whole opinion on someone else's description of the range? The reduced range is partially a "where do we put the batteries" issue, but MOSTLY a price a issue. There's no way to price an e-Golf in a similar range to a 200+ mile range Tesla and not have it been $10k+ more than a regular Golf. Saying things like "it shows to me that VW is not doing the technically possible" without ANY informed opinion is embarrassing. edit: also, do you own any kind of electric car or are you just pontificating? Range anxiety is a real thing - literally the stress of "do I have enough electricity to get home"

_ph_ 8y ago

That is the one thing I give to VW: their first new electric car is going to be the NEO, which is basically a Golf done from scratch as an electric car. If they can get it into production numbers high enough for the promised prices, it could be the electric car for the masses.

bonestamp2 8y ago

> no DRM locking me out of reparing my own car That's going to be nearly impossible to avoid in the future. I do some software work for one automaker and every 2019+ model has a firewall on the data bus. It's not because they want to lock you out of repairing your car, it's because the pen testing and Defcon hacking has been accelerating over the past few years and they don't want headlines that say their cars can be hacked. That's bad for sales. They'll lose sales from guys like you too of course -- your concern is certainly valid, but more people are concerned about the security of their car than being able to repair it themselves.

vbezhenar 8y ago
Why firewall prevents repair? IPtables on my Linux box does not prevent me from replacing a memory or resolder failed capacitor. It's like completely different layers.
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  If you opened an ECU in your car, you could resolder a failed cap. There is nothing preventing you from doing that. The repairs it might prevent would be if you replaced an ECU that needs to be authorized to communicate over the bus. I can't speak for other automakers but at least in our case you don't have to go to a dealership if you don't want, there are third-party repair shops that are authorized to use our software for these kinds of repairs.
stephengillie 8y ago
Oh, automakers are finally putting security on their wide-open Car Area Networks - like the one that let a hacker stop a reporter's car - and this you see as only a bad thing?
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  Maybe you misunderstood me -- I don't think it's a bad thing. I think there are people who will think it's a bad thing and my comment is just stating what I've seen on the inside -- I've never once heard anyone talk about trying to lock out owners from doing their own repairs. Most of these people are owners themselves and their neighbors are owners, etc. From what I've seen, the firewall is to protect the car and its owner, not to prevent them from doing their own repairs (that is only a side effect from making the car more secure).

stephengillie 8y ago

I'm still looking for a plug-in Camry or Tacoma.

rqs 8y ago

Since we're here already ... Maybe also no smartphone door unlocking? I don't get it, why everybody start to build car like a smartphone now days?

tga 8y ago

Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, Chevy Bolt, and the list goes on -- all boring little EVs. The huge displays and app store are the exception, not the rule.