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Preface: I dont actually have a set opinion yet on whether Airbnb is net good/bad. How much of this is regulation thats around to protect the society that the

by lovich 8y ago

Preface: I dont actually have a set opinion yet on whether Airbnb is net good/bad. How much of this is regulation thats around to protect the society that the hotel is operating in? Changing those sheets everyday isn't just for having clean smelling sheets, but to prevent pests such as bed bugs in some localities. For instance there's probably tons of people whod jump on doctors/dentists who lower the price by not cleaning all their tools properly, but we have regulations requiring it because it can create an epidemic that causes negative externalities to the wider community. I think I'd have less of a problem with Airbnb if there was any sort of enforcement of health laws or putting effort into not supporting people who sign leases saying they won't do Airbnb but do it anyway. Having a lower price just shows that is the most efficient use of scarce resources in that specific situation, it does not show that it's good for society.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Having a lower price just shows that is the most efficient use of scarce resources in that specific situation" No, it's not 'specific'. The 'rent' marketing clearing price for a locale is a function of a vast array of economic inputs. That's the whole point of free markets, and why it's difficult to dictate terms around it. The fact that there is a vast influx of AirBnBers in so many areas is not a small things, it's really quite apparent that the artificial controls set by zoning are far more constrictive than we ever thought - and they should be loosened. There are all sorts of external surpluses lost when markets are not efficient. Also - I fundamentally doubt that people are just 'getting sick' because of AirBnB and 'not having their sheets changed every day'. I just don't believe it's an issue. FYI hotels have stopped changing sheets every day as well, they usually say 'to preserve water' which is BS - it's cost - but they generally do make the bed and clean every day which is unnecessary. I would probably ban AirBnB for anything but special kinds of places, and maybe not allow it in residential buildings, at least allow building owners/coops to enforce it. And then also be far more lax with hotel zoning and regulations as well. Every city wants more 'tourism' until they get tourists and they get pissed off. Well, those tourists bring in tons of cash. Every city wants business to invest and 'high tech' jobs until the locals complain about 'Google values' and 'home prices'. The market for both hotels and taxis is just too vastly distorted - and we all lose - especially consumers who would only be able to afford 1/2 as much travel otherwise. There should be a lot more hotels and taxis.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
  I experience the exact opposite in regards to “getting sick”. When I travel, which is quite often, I have a greater chance of getting sick when I stay in a hotel. I suspect it’s like being on a plane where you are breathing air that has been recycled with hundreds of other people. It’s noticeable enough that I definitely need to collect hard data on it to establish the correlation. Guessing anecdotally that if I stay in a hotel my chances of catching a cold are at least double and possibly triple my chance of catching a cold in a private AirBnB. The other part of your comment that I can identify with is the “save the environment” signs you see at hotels. It’s completely disingenuous and it’s one of the rare small things that irrationally infuriates me. Every time I read one of those signs I think something along the lines of “if this didn’t save you money you wouldn’t care”. I inevitably end up pondering the decisions that the hotel could make that would help save the environment many times more than a few wash cycles. Decisions that the hotel obviously wouldn’t take because it would cost the hotel money instead of saving them money. Perhaps my disaffection is mostly because the signs are a perfect example of corporate bullshit; the exact sort of facade you would expect from a faceless corporation that will say anything to get your money.
briandear 8y ago
To be fair, hotels are often infested with bedbugs despite “regulation.” I have yet to see many stories of people dying because an AirBnB is less than sanitary. Besides, if you have bedbugs in your place, you get hammered on the reviews and your place gets delisted. AirBnB is aggressively strict about reviews. Too many 4 star reviews and you get “punished.” One of my listings in France got suspended for a week because it had an average review of 4.4 stars! Yet a French hotel that gets a slew of 2 star reviews on TripAdvisor or similar doesn’t get touched. AirBnB reviews are far more effective than regulation in weeding out “bad” places. I have stayed in plenty of shithole hotels across Europe despite “regulation.” Some hostels are downright poisonous. I have stayed in a few rat-hotels in the Bowery in New York and those places are still around. I have gotten sick more times at US restaurants than in years of eating street food in East Asia. AirBnB isn’t a health risk of any significance; I would invite data to the contrary. Besides, even if it were a health risk, nobody forces you to stay in one. In this era of nonsense warnings such as “don’t use a hairdryer in the shower” or coffee cups warning that coffee is hot, I have become quite sick of well-meaning people who seek to infantilize grown adults and protect them from various boogeymen that could be avoided with simple common sense: rats in the dining room? Don’t eat there. Dirty sheets or fire hazards? Don’t sleep there. A place selling for $10 per night when everywhere else is $100? Use your brain, do your homework, be a responsible grown up and stop expecting government to protect you from bedbugs.
BurningFrog 8y ago
> Changing those sheets everyday isn't just for having clean smelling sheets, but to prevent pests such as bed bugs in some localities. If this actually was true, wouldn't there be regulations for changing sheets daily in every home as well?
- nl 8y ago
  No, the goal is to stop transmission by travellers.
  - BurningFrog 8y ago
    That might argue for changing sheets between guests, not changing sheets for the same guest every night.

by lovich 8y ago

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"Having a lower price just shows that is the most efficient use of scarce resources in that specific situation" No, it's not 'specific'. The 'rent' marketing clearing price for a locale is a function of a vast array of economic inputs. That's the whole point of free markets, and why it's difficult to dictate terms around it. The fact that there is a vast influx of AirBnBers in so many areas is not a small things, it's really quite apparent that the artificial controls set by zoning are far more constrictive than we ever thought - and they should be loosened. There are all sorts of external surpluses lost when markets are not efficient. Also - I fundamentally doubt that people are just 'getting sick' because of AirBnB and 'not having their sheets changed every day'. I just don't believe it's an issue. FYI hotels have stopped changing sheets every day as well, they usually say 'to preserve water' which is BS - it's cost - but they generally do make the bed and clean every day which is unnecessary. I would probably ban AirBnB for anything but special kinds of places, and maybe not allow it in residential buildings, at least allow building owners/coops to enforce it. And then also be far more lax with hotel zoning and regulations as well. Every city wants more 'tourism' until they get tourists and they get pissed off. Well, those tourists bring in tons of cash. Every city wants business to invest and 'high tech' jobs until the locals complain about 'Google values' and 'home prices'. The market for both hotels and taxis is just too vastly distorted - and we all lose - especially consumers who would only be able to afford 1/2 as much travel otherwise. There should be a lot more hotels and taxis.

SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
I experience the exact opposite in regards to “getting sick”. When I travel, which is quite often, I have a greater chance of getting sick when I stay in a hotel. I suspect it’s like being on a plane where you are breathing air that has been recycled with hundreds of other people. It’s noticeable enough that I definitely need to collect hard data on it to establish the correlation. Guessing anecdotally that if I stay in a hotel my chances of catching a cold are at least double and possibly triple my chance of catching a cold in a private AirBnB. The other part of your comment that I can identify with is the “save the environment” signs you see at hotels. It’s completely disingenuous and it’s one of the rare small things that irrationally infuriates me. Every time I read one of those signs I think something along the lines of “if this didn’t save you money you wouldn’t care”. I inevitably end up pondering the decisions that the hotel could make that would help save the environment many times more than a few wash cycles. Decisions that the hotel obviously wouldn’t take because it would cost the hotel money instead of saving them money. Perhaps my disaffection is mostly because the signs are a perfect example of corporate bullshit; the exact sort of facade you would expect from a faceless corporation that will say anything to get your money.

briandear 8y ago

To be fair, hotels are often infested with bedbugs despite “regulation.” I have yet to see many stories of people dying because an AirBnB is less than sanitary. Besides, if you have bedbugs in your place, you get hammered on the reviews and your place gets delisted. AirBnB is aggressively strict about reviews. Too many 4 star reviews and you get “punished.” One of my listings in France got suspended for a week because it had an average review of 4.4 stars! Yet a French hotel that gets a slew of 2 star reviews on TripAdvisor or similar doesn’t get touched. AirBnB reviews are far more effective than regulation in weeding out “bad” places. I have stayed in plenty of shithole hotels across Europe despite “regulation.” Some hostels are downright poisonous. I have stayed in a few rat-hotels in the Bowery in New York and those places are still around. I have gotten sick more times at US restaurants than in years of eating street food in East Asia. AirBnB isn’t a health risk of any significance; I would invite data to the contrary. Besides, even if it were a health risk, nobody forces you to stay in one. In this era of nonsense warnings such as “don’t use a hairdryer in the shower” or coffee cups warning that coffee is hot, I have become quite sick of well-meaning people who seek to infantilize grown adults and protect them from various boogeymen that could be avoided with simple common sense: rats in the dining room? Don’t eat there. Dirty sheets or fire hazards? Don’t sleep there. A place selling for $10 per night when everywhere else is $100? Use your brain, do your homework, be a responsible grown up and stop expecting government to protect you from bedbugs.

BurningFrog 8y ago

> Changing those sheets everyday isn't just for having clean smelling sheets, but to prevent pests such as bed bugs in some localities. If this actually was true, wouldn't there be regulations for changing sheets daily in every home as well?

nl 8y ago
No, the goal is to stop transmission by travellers.
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  That might argue for changing sheets between guests, not changing sheets for the same guest every night.