4 ms·

I've never seen a contract contain the clause, "We don't have to pay you what we owe you, simply by having one of our employees make an accusation of sexual har

I've never seen a contract contain the clause, "We don't have to pay you what we owe you, simply by having one of our employees make an accusation of sexual harassment against you." I would never sign one.

kevingadd 8y ago
"Accusation of sexual harassment" is kind of an understatement given the massive amount of misconduct that occurred, often not even denied by the bad actor, in direct violation of company guidelines. You don't just get to light the employee handbook on fire and keep all your compensation. You can get fired with cause. Naturally trying to kick someone out and withhold compensation is a lot harder than just quietly ushering them out the door and paying them off, which is what typically happens here because Google does not want bad press and does not want to get dragged into a multi-year court case by someone they're trying to fire.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  In the case mentioned in the article the person accused denies it. According to other articles it was an accusation by somebody he had an affair with. I wouldn't take the situation filtered through journalists too seriously but I don't think he shouldn't get the money he's owed because believe women.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    You seem to conveniently ignore that Google investigated the claims internally and found them credible. He wasn't 'owed money', he was given a strong exit package in spite of being let go due to a credible accusation. The fact that you also flippantly toss a remark about 'believing women' in this circumstance does say a lot about your character.
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      Credible doesn't mean "true." It means "not incredible."
      - T2_t2 8y ago
        I agree 100% with everything you have said. But I also think this isn't the right hill to die on. The fact that this is the best case scenario here - for all sides - is irrelevant to anyone likely to comment. Pragmatism is dead in this area. This issue is just too hot for anyone to be rational about with the current Zeitgeist, and it is wise to, if not say nothing, at least use a throwaway account!!!
        SamReidHughes 8y ago
        Huh? These people were insinuating I liked the idea that you don't lose your money because of an accusation that couldn't survive a day in court [1]. That's obviously a popular idea. [1] At least I think so -- three different people suddenly found themselves unable to complete a sentence in a way that didn't make them look stupid.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
ixtli 8y ago
Do you think that termination clauses given by google to employees have zero conditions attached to them? Even if you're an executive there are absolutely things you can do that would forfeit the contract. If you were fired for stealing secrets, do you think they'd pay you out? Certainly the same clauses could be written to avoid paying if you have to be let go because something you did caused some other sort of harm to the company. We can talk about whether or not the contract included such a clause and whether or not thats a failure on Google's part, but I have a feeling that's not why you posted this comment. And btw I think it's clear that if I offered you the sort of money this dude had you probably wouldn't pass it up based on what the conditions for termination payout clauses were.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  Why don't you say why you think I posted this comment?
  - ixtli 8y ago
    Because I didn’t think it was relevant at all: I don’t believe you want to talk about whether or not google is representing its own interests contractually. But now that you bring it up I imagine my intuition is correct.
- LanceH 8y ago
  Getting accused won't stand up as "something he did". There is a much higher bar for that and it would have to play out in court unless he completely rolled over.
enraged_camel 8y ago
>>We don't have to pay you what we owe you, simply by having one of our employees make an accusation of sexual harassment against you." What do you mean by “simply”? Do you believe accusing someone of sexual harassment is a “simple” matter, or that it is easy? I think the language you are using here speaks volumes about your beliefs.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  What does it speak about my beliefs? You sure like making vague insinuations instead of speaking clearly. It speaks to your character.
  - enraged_camel 8y ago
    >>What does it speak about my beliefs? I already explained it.
cjbprime 8y ago
The money wasn't owed. It was an exit package.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  He had a $150M stock grant that he used to negotiate the exit package. - According to https://www.businessinsider.com/andy-rubin-90-million-exit-package-google-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2018-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/andy-rubin-90-million-exit-p...

kevingadd 8y ago

"Accusation of sexual harassment" is kind of an understatement given the massive amount of misconduct that occurred, often not even denied by the bad actor, in direct violation of company guidelines. You don't just get to light the employee handbook on fire and keep all your compensation. You can get fired with cause. Naturally trying to kick someone out and withhold compensation is a lot harder than just quietly ushering them out the door and paying them off, which is what typically happens here because Google does not want bad press and does not want to get dragged into a multi-year court case by someone they're trying to fire.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
In the case mentioned in the article the person accused denies it. According to other articles it was an accusation by somebody he had an affair with. I wouldn't take the situation filtered through journalists too seriously but I don't think he shouldn't get the money he's owed because believe women.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  You seem to conveniently ignore that Google investigated the claims internally and found them credible. He wasn't 'owed money', he was given a strong exit package in spite of being let go due to a credible accusation. The fact that you also flippantly toss a remark about 'believing women' in this circumstance does say a lot about your character.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Credible doesn't mean "true." It means "not incredible."
    - T2_t2 8y ago
      I agree 100% with everything you have said. But I also think this isn't the right hill to die on. The fact that this is the best case scenario here - for all sides - is irrelevant to anyone likely to comment. Pragmatism is dead in this area. This issue is just too hot for anyone to be rational about with the current Zeitgeist, and it is wise to, if not say nothing, at least use a throwaway account!!!
      - SamReidHughes 8y ago
        Huh? These people were insinuating I liked the idea that you don't lose your money because of an accusation that couldn't survive a day in court [1]. That's obviously a popular idea. [1] At least I think so -- three different people suddenly found themselves unable to complete a sentence in a way that didn't make them look stupid.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

ixtli 8y ago

Do you think that termination clauses given by google to employees have zero conditions attached to them? Even if you're an executive there are absolutely things you can do that would forfeit the contract. If you were fired for stealing secrets, do you think they'd pay you out? Certainly the same clauses could be written to avoid paying if you have to be let go because something you did caused some other sort of harm to the company. We can talk about whether or not the contract included such a clause and whether or not thats a failure on Google's part, but I have a feeling that's not why you posted this comment. And btw I think it's clear that if I offered you the sort of money this dude had you probably wouldn't pass it up based on what the conditions for termination payout clauses were.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
Why don't you say why you think I posted this comment?
- ixtli 8y ago
  Because I didn’t think it was relevant at all: I don’t believe you want to talk about whether or not google is representing its own interests contractually. But now that you bring it up I imagine my intuition is correct.
LanceH 8y ago
Getting accused won't stand up as "something he did". There is a much higher bar for that and it would have to play out in court unless he completely rolled over.

enraged_camel 8y ago

>>We don't have to pay you what we owe you, simply by having one of our employees make an accusation of sexual harassment against you." What do you mean by “simply”? Do you believe accusing someone of sexual harassment is a “simple” matter, or that it is easy? I think the language you are using here speaks volumes about your beliefs.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
What does it speak about my beliefs? You sure like making vague insinuations instead of speaking clearly. It speaks to your character.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  >>What does it speak about my beliefs? I already explained it.

cjbprime 8y ago

The money wasn't owed. It was an exit package.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
He had a $150M stock grant that he used to negotiate the exit package. - According to https://www.businessinsider.com/andy-rubin-90-million-exit-package-google-sexual-misconduct-investigation-2018-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/andy-rubin-90-million-exit-p...