6 ms·

Non-narcissist here, apparently. I do find the premise somewhat troubling. If you’re supremely confident and never doubt yourself, even in situations where you

by jf- 8y ago

Non-narcissist here, apparently. I do find the premise somewhat troubling. If you’re supremely confident and never doubt yourself, even in situations where you should, you could be described as a narcissist. And if you’re lacking in self-confidence, and constantly think you’ll be found out, you’re also a narcissist. And there’s probably narcissists who experience a moderate level of self-doubt in between. It’s more likely narcissism and self doubt are just independent variables.

nwellnhof 8y ago
I think the key to understanding narcissism is that narcissists only try very hard to appear confident but on the inside they're anything but. The grandiosity they display is just a kind of coping mechanism.
- ergothus 8y ago
  But there's a difference between narcissism and just covering for a lack of self-confidence. I'm not psychologically trained, so take this with a grain of salt, but I've met exactly one person that I think was a narcissist. He was a jerk, but mostly because he was utterly baffled by any concept that didn't involve him in the center. It was an attribute completely separate from his confidence. I feel like it is really hard to explain if you haven't met someone like that - I was routinely gobsmacked by his reactions - every human interaction I'd had to date had not prepared me for it. Meanwhile, I have tons of anxiety and often cover it up with false confidence, and our reactions to similar events were dramatically different.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Amygaz 8y ago
  Not at all. That is why it’s called a personality disorder. They are truly and sincerely like that. The part that made me realized I was dealing with mentally diseased people is that they truly believe the crap they throw at you. Their lies become an undeniable truth as soon as they spell it out loud.
e40 8y ago
I wonder if narcissism is the brain's reaction to self doubt. I've definitely seen numerous cases of people who have a lot of self doubt over-compensating with adding confidence they shouldn't have.
muterad_murilax 8y ago
Isn't that the difference between (true) narcissists and people who suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)?
nobody271 8y ago
This is why I find the idea of promoting "mental health awareness" to be disturbing. It's far too tempting to say you know why someone acts some way, or that the way they are acting is a disorder, based on one or two observations. I do the same thing though. I really wish I understood myself half as well as I think I understand other people.
- sbilstein 8y ago
  Armchair diagnosis is dangerous IMO. It can be a form of gaslighting. Sure everyone can benefit from therapy, meditation and improving systems for managing sadness, frustration, impatience but telling yourself or someone else you have ADD, compulsive disorder, anxiety is a great way to pop the self esteem bubble and confidence you need to get through life. In the workplace it's especial dangerous; you can force someone to question why they don't like a job or feel isolated or bullied by convincing them their perception is really the problem. It doesn't take much effort to convince someone who is upset by circumstance that they have a problem. "You're too sensitive" "you're depressed" "that person has an anxiety problem" when really the environment at the job might really be the problem or some basic coaching might be the solution. I worked somewhere in which people openly admitted the company culture drove them to therapy yet were so "grateful" for an "open and inclusive" environment. The cognitive dissonance there was very disturbing. This occurs in families as well. I grew up in an abusive household and, well damn, your parents will do their best to convince you that you are the crazy one and need help.
  - selestify 8y ago
    How do you, as an individual, tell if it's you or if it's the environment?
    - sbilstein 8y ago
      I wish I had a good answer. A mix of trusted friends and a thoughtful therapist. If you are in an abusive situation, a therapist should be able to identify it since there are objective frameworks to think about that. It's also easy to reject an "objective" diagnosis of a situation because you are likely to view it from your internalized perspective.
ada1981 8y ago
It makes sense if you understand that mental health “diagnosis” has a primary function as a tool for control and status (either boosting the status of the prescriber or reducing the status of the patient). Primate dominance games.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  Mental health diagnoses are as valid and useful as physical health diagnoses.
  - ada1981 8y ago
    I disagree with this. If someone has a broken arm it’s observable and it’s pretty clear what the next step is. With mental health diagnosis it’s not clear what the underlying issue is and at best you’ll be given something to supress symptoms. We are doing a bit better on this with things like Psychedelics and Open Dialogue, but mental health is more of a context than a condition.
  - Sir_Substance 8y ago
    Only when they are made by psychiatric professionals who are suitable detached from the scenario they are judging. I can think of a few people I know who took one year of highschool psychology or once read a pop-sci book about it who like to tell people what the root cause of their behavior is. It's usually done as a dominance move.
  - sbilstein 8y ago
    I think OP meant non-professionals. A mental health diagnosis from a laymen is no different than saying "you're crazy!"
    - ada1981 8y ago
      This is true as well. But historically diagnosis was used as a way to strip liberty away from people. Women who refused to sleep with husbands were routinely committed. Capitalism is intense and is resulting in mental health issues for many people. The system doesn’t self critique rather it labels the people as “ill” and sells them a pill, at a profit of course. The practitioners often benefit and reinforce the dynamics that create the symptoms in our culture. Open Dialogue is an approach which does a great job at healing folks in the context of community.

by jf- 8y ago

nwellnhof 8y ago

I think the key to understanding narcissism is that narcissists only try very hard to appear confident but on the inside they're anything but. The grandiosity they display is just a kind of coping mechanism.

ergothus 8y ago
But there's a difference between narcissism and just covering for a lack of self-confidence. I'm not psychologically trained, so take this with a grain of salt, but I've met exactly one person that I think was a narcissist. He was a jerk, but mostly because he was utterly baffled by any concept that didn't involve him in the center. It was an attribute completely separate from his confidence. I feel like it is really hard to explain if you haven't met someone like that - I was routinely gobsmacked by his reactions - every human interaction I'd had to date had not prepared me for it. Meanwhile, I have tons of anxiety and often cover it up with false confidence, and our reactions to similar events were dramatically different.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Amygaz 8y ago
Not at all. That is why it’s called a personality disorder. They are truly and sincerely like that. The part that made me realized I was dealing with mentally diseased people is that they truly believe the crap they throw at you. Their lies become an undeniable truth as soon as they spell it out loud.

e40 8y ago

I wonder if narcissism is the brain's reaction to self doubt. I've definitely seen numerous cases of people who have a lot of self doubt over-compensating with adding confidence they shouldn't have.

muterad_murilax 8y ago

Isn't that the difference between (true) narcissists and people who suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)?

nobody271 8y ago

This is why I find the idea of promoting "mental health awareness" to be disturbing. It's far too tempting to say you know why someone acts some way, or that the way they are acting is a disorder, based on one or two observations. I do the same thing though. I really wish I understood myself half as well as I think I understand other people.

sbilstein 8y ago
Armchair diagnosis is dangerous IMO. It can be a form of gaslighting. Sure everyone can benefit from therapy, meditation and improving systems for managing sadness, frustration, impatience but telling yourself or someone else you have ADD, compulsive disorder, anxiety is a great way to pop the self esteem bubble and confidence you need to get through life. In the workplace it's especial dangerous; you can force someone to question why they don't like a job or feel isolated or bullied by convincing them their perception is really the problem. It doesn't take much effort to convince someone who is upset by circumstance that they have a problem. "You're too sensitive" "you're depressed" "that person has an anxiety problem" when really the environment at the job might really be the problem or some basic coaching might be the solution. I worked somewhere in which people openly admitted the company culture drove them to therapy yet were so "grateful" for an "open and inclusive" environment. The cognitive dissonance there was very disturbing. This occurs in families as well. I grew up in an abusive household and, well damn, your parents will do their best to convince you that you are the crazy one and need help.
- selestify 8y ago
  How do you, as an individual, tell if it's you or if it's the environment?
  - sbilstein 8y ago
    I wish I had a good answer. A mix of trusted friends and a thoughtful therapist. If you are in an abusive situation, a therapist should be able to identify it since there are objective frameworks to think about that. It's also easy to reject an "objective" diagnosis of a situation because you are likely to view it from your internalized perspective.

ada1981 8y ago

It makes sense if you understand that mental health “diagnosis” has a primary function as a tool for control and status (either boosting the status of the prescriber or reducing the status of the patient). Primate dominance games.

Sharlin 8y ago
Mental health diagnoses are as valid and useful as physical health diagnoses.
- ada1981 8y ago
  I disagree with this. If someone has a broken arm it’s observable and it’s pretty clear what the next step is. With mental health diagnosis it’s not clear what the underlying issue is and at best you’ll be given something to supress symptoms. We are doing a bit better on this with things like Psychedelics and Open Dialogue, but mental health is more of a context than a condition.
- Sir_Substance 8y ago
  Only when they are made by psychiatric professionals who are suitable detached from the scenario they are judging. I can think of a few people I know who took one year of highschool psychology or once read a pop-sci book about it who like to tell people what the root cause of their behavior is. It's usually done as a dominance move.
- sbilstein 8y ago
  I think OP meant non-professionals. A mental health diagnosis from a laymen is no different than saying "you're crazy!"
  - ada1981 8y ago
    This is true as well. But historically diagnosis was used as a way to strip liberty away from people. Women who refused to sleep with husbands were routinely committed. Capitalism is intense and is resulting in mental health issues for many people. The system doesn’t self critique rather it labels the people as “ill” and sells them a pill, at a profit of course. The practitioners often benefit and reinforce the dynamics that create the symptoms in our culture. Open Dialogue is an approach which does a great job at healing folks in the context of community.