9 ms·

While I may agree with you, didn’t the article say people were relatively well off?

by bobx11 8y ago

chiefalchemist 8y ago
I was speaking about stress. The fact that chronic stress has negative impact on decision making, etc. To your point, if stress effects the relatively well off, imagine what happens to those are struggling to get by.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  If this is worth exploring, do it right: make an experiment and actually measure these things. Imagining is not science, and we shouldn't make decisions on things we've merely imagined.
  - dTal 8y ago
    Kind of a weird smackdown. Are we not allowed to make observations on Hacker News until we've backed them up with a peer-reviewed study?
    - dfxm12 8y ago
      When drawing conclusions, like "stress effects those struggling to get by worse than the relatively well off", I would always err on the side of evidence over imagination. Imagining something isn't even an observation.
      - albedoa 8y ago
        That is a mischaracterization of the comment you responded to. He was appealing for another commenter to imagine the impact of stress on one who is struggling economically given what we know about the effects of stress. We don't have to set up a peer-reviewed study to do that. We can both imagine and yield to evidence.
        hammock 8y ago
        Good point.
  - thfuran 8y ago
    Well, those studies have already been done. And poverty is shit for you.
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    The OP __is__ actual. It says (in short) "stress not only effects the body, it effects the mind." That's enough. Certainly, you're not suggesting we need a study on whether poverty is stressful or not. The arc of my original comment is: Some well say, "Well, poverty is a decision. Those in poverty need to make better decisions." Unfortunately, that's naive. It does not consider the fact that stress has a negative impact on the brain, on decision making.
    - dfxm12 8y ago
      Certainly, you're not suggesting we need a study on whether poverty is stressful or not. You didn't ask us to imagine if "poverty is stressful"; you made a different claim entirely.
- mantas 8y ago
  A lot of well paying jobs are very stressful. Meanwhile many low-skill jobs are not stressful. On top of that, well-off people frequently feel a lot of stress for "keeping up with the Jones". Sure, we could say that well-off people stress is not as important and they just shouldn't stress about unimportant stuff. But stress is stress and people ability to stress out is relative, not absolute. Even today's poor people are much better off than average people from 200 or 2000 years ago. Yet average stress level seems to be getting higher and higher.
  - YinglingLight 8y ago
    >Yet average stress level seems to be getting higher and higher. An important point is the occurrence of "Dominance Hierarchies" which has been persistent in animals/human since the dawn of time. In a small hamlet, it was 'easy' to become known as the best blacksmith, the fastest runner, the best storyteller. You physiology literally changes and you gain an increase in dopamine receptors. With the rise of technology, we are exposed to Dominance Hierarchies of much grander scope. Kids (and adults) are evaluating themselves against Instagram models and NFL Stars. A 14 year old can win their local brazilian jiu-jitsu tournament and still feel inadequate.
    - watwut 8y ago
      Maybe we should teach kids that they don't have to be the world best to matter then. Role modeling respect toward non winners too. You don't need "dominance hierarchy" to go away entirely, just give them coping skills and don't amplify it by winner takes all systems. But also, even today you can be good in your immediate social circle and in the past to be in environment of big competition.
      - mantas 8y ago
        Overall we should put more emphasis on journey than on the goal. It's OK to strive to be world's best. But it's OK to not become one and just be 150th on the grand standing. Journey is what matters. Even if you do become world's best, you'll probably won't be world's best a moment later and journey is all you'll have left.
- ams6110 8y ago
  It's more than stress though it's hierarchy of needs. If you don't have food in the pantry, you're not worried about saving for retirement. And that's probably sensible.
  - minikites 8y ago
    Maslow's hierarchy has no supporting evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Cr... Individuals can absolutely worry about more than one thing and different needs can change "ranks" daily depending on life circumstances.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    If you don't have food in the pantry AND you are not able save for retirement, you definitely worry about both. People aren't machines that just consider the most urgent worry in a priority queue of some sort.

While I may agree with you, didn’t the article say people were relatively well off?

by bobx11 8y ago

While I may agree with you, didn’t the article say people were relatively well off?

I was speaking about stress. The fact that chronic stress has negative impact on decision making, etc. To your point, if stress effects the relatively well off, imagine what happens to those are struggling to get by.

dfxm12 8y ago
If this is worth exploring, do it right: make an experiment and actually measure these things. Imagining is not science, and we shouldn't make decisions on things we've merely imagined.
- dTal 8y ago
  Kind of a weird smackdown. Are we not allowed to make observations on Hacker News until we've backed them up with a peer-reviewed study?
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    When drawing conclusions, like "stress effects those struggling to get by worse than the relatively well off", I would always err on the side of evidence over imagination. Imagining something isn't even an observation.
    - albedoa 8y ago
      That is a mischaracterization of the comment you responded to. He was appealing for another commenter to imagine the impact of stress on one who is struggling economically given what we know about the effects of stress. We don't have to set up a peer-reviewed study to do that. We can both imagine and yield to evidence.
      - hammock 8y ago
        Good point.
- thfuran 8y ago
  Well, those studies have already been done. And poverty is shit for you.
- chiefalchemist 8y ago
  The OP __is__ actual. It says (in short) "stress not only effects the body, it effects the mind." That's enough. Certainly, you're not suggesting we need a study on whether poverty is stressful or not. The arc of my original comment is: Some well say, "Well, poverty is a decision. Those in poverty need to make better decisions." Unfortunately, that's naive. It does not consider the fact that stress has a negative impact on the brain, on decision making.
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    Certainly, you're not suggesting we need a study on whether poverty is stressful or not. You didn't ask us to imagine if "poverty is stressful"; you made a different claim entirely.
mantas 8y ago
A lot of well paying jobs are very stressful. Meanwhile many low-skill jobs are not stressful. On top of that, well-off people frequently feel a lot of stress for "keeping up with the Jones". Sure, we could say that well-off people stress is not as important and they just shouldn't stress about unimportant stuff. But stress is stress and people ability to stress out is relative, not absolute. Even today's poor people are much better off than average people from 200 or 2000 years ago. Yet average stress level seems to be getting higher and higher.
- YinglingLight 8y ago
  >Yet average stress level seems to be getting higher and higher. An important point is the occurrence of "Dominance Hierarchies" which has been persistent in animals/human since the dawn of time. In a small hamlet, it was 'easy' to become known as the best blacksmith, the fastest runner, the best storyteller. You physiology literally changes and you gain an increase in dopamine receptors. With the rise of technology, we are exposed to Dominance Hierarchies of much grander scope. Kids (and adults) are evaluating themselves against Instagram models and NFL Stars. A 14 year old can win their local brazilian jiu-jitsu tournament and still feel inadequate.
  - watwut 8y ago
    Maybe we should teach kids that they don't have to be the world best to matter then. Role modeling respect toward non winners too. You don't need "dominance hierarchy" to go away entirely, just give them coping skills and don't amplify it by winner takes all systems. But also, even today you can be good in your immediate social circle and in the past to be in environment of big competition.
    - mantas 8y ago
      Overall we should put more emphasis on journey than on the goal. It's OK to strive to be world's best. But it's OK to not become one and just be 150th on the grand standing. Journey is what matters. Even if you do become world's best, you'll probably won't be world's best a moment later and journey is all you'll have left.
ams6110 8y ago
It's more than stress though it's hierarchy of needs. If you don't have food in the pantry, you're not worried about saving for retirement. And that's probably sensible.
- minikites 8y ago
  Maslow's hierarchy has no supporting evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Cr... Individuals can absolutely worry about more than one thing and different needs can change "ranks" daily depending on life circumstances.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  If you don't have food in the pantry AND you are not able save for retirement, you definitely worry about both. People aren't machines that just consider the most urgent worry in a priority queue of some sort.