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You are comparing perp w/ victim stats. You are also comparing female victimization rates w/ Google's population (only 30% female, even less in higher levels wh
by biglenny 8y ago
You are comparing perp w/ victim stats. You are also comparing female victimization rates w/ Google's population (only 30% female, even less in higher levels where most of these 48 get dismissed from). I also think there are ~90K employees.
One dude can harass lots of women (as is usually the case). These 48 could have very easily been responsible for 20+ incidents each. And there are probably many more perps who have gone unpunished.
That said, male Google employees are probably less likely to sexually harass. They tend to be more nerdy, introverted, and less masculine(lower testosterone, less aggressive).
Edit: I shouldn't have used a word like masculine, whose definition is largely debated. I meant masculine in the hormonal sense.
- rishabhparikh 8y ago> They tend to be more nerdy, introverted, and less masculine(lower testosterone, less aggressive). Not a fan of you making this up based on perceived stereotypes and then using it to justify an argument. I do agree that these numbers are complicated and require analysis on data that we probably don't have access to.
- biglenny 8y agoI'm curious why you think I am making this up. Testosterone is linked with higher levels of aggression. Anyone who is employed to write code and work with computers works a sedentary job. I don't think it is a ridiculous notion that your average Googler will be nerdier or smarter than the average man. And I hope that just because "low-testosterone" is used as an insult by alt-right losers, you don't associate me with that group or characterize my comment as troll-y.
- bitL 8y agoGoogle has quite a few ripped masculine employees doing dev work in Mountain View... They have to stay in good shape if only for their brains to continue working at the highest level...
- biglenny 8y agoYeah, I know some. I said "tendency" for a reason. People in this thread seem to think I said "every and without exception".
- bitL 8y agoGet used to it ;-) You can still have some good discussions with people that captured all the shades of your statements properly.
- biglenny 8y agoYeah sry if I came off aggressive man. Everyone in this thread misinterpreting what I said probably reflects more on ME than them. I need to get better at writing...
- dang 8y agoI take it that you didn't mean to, but you effectively trolled this thread by tossing flamebait into an inflammatory topic. Please don't do that in the future. If you'd review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- rishabhparikh 8y agoI think it's a hasty jump to make assumptions about the biology of people based on their job description. Plenty of engineers I work with exercise regularly. I'm curious, do you have any links to research correlating sedentary jobs and testosterone levels?
- DoreenMichele 8y agoYou are just digging your grave deeper here. Don't assume high testosterone = must be a blue collar worker or sumpin. That's basically classist BS. Pushing code because it is one of the highest paid professions in the world right now and exercises real power could be construed as aggressive as hell on the face of it. There's a reason people bitch about "brogrammer" culture. Even if you ignore that, desk jockeys aren't all sedentary losers. Plenty are buff and pursue Manly Man (TM) activities in their off hours, like sports, martial arts, etc.
- biglenny 8y agoYou are the only one who has associated a sedentary job with being a loser or a blue class job with high testosterone. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. You seem to be misconstruing a "tendency" for an "absolute blanket on all"
- DoreenMichele 8y agoI didn't use the word loser.
- biglenny 8y ago> Even if you ignore that, desk jockeys aren't all sedentary losers You're right. You used the word "loserS"
- DoreenMichele 8y agoMy bad. I guess I did.
- thereare5lights 8y agoOP said > They tend to be more nerdy, introverted, and less masculine(lower testosterone, less aggressive). and > Testosterone is linked with higher levels of aggression. Anyone who is employed to write code and work with computers works a sedentary job. > I don't think it is a ridiculous notion that your average Googler will be nerdier or smarter than the average man. And I hope that just because "low-testosterone" is used as an insult by alt-right losers, you don't associate me with that group or characterize my comment as troll-y. At no point did OP say: > Don't assume high testosterone = must be a blue collar worker or sumpin. Your statement isn't even the inverse of OP's statement. The only one that said that is you.
- devmunchies 8y agoGoogle has a lot of right wingers. They just are closeted about it. Doesn’t make them “losers”.
- biglenny 8y agoDude, how did you get "right-wingers are losers and there are none at Google" from "low-test is an insult used by ALT-right losers"? I wasn't talking about political leaning of Google employees at all. I seriously gotta get better with my words lol. Everyone in this thread seems to be getting a different meaning out of what I said.
- DenisM 8y agoI see that several of your comments were taken backwards and sideways, and I extend my sympathy. Your mistake is not your wording, which is perfectly clear, it's the erroneous choice of the topic article to engage, as that defines both the audience and the discourse manner.
- devmunchies 8y agoI misunderstood you, but I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s just some online discussion.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- belorn 8y ago> Testosterone is linked with higher levels of aggression. Testosterone is correlated to higher levels of aggression similar to how estrogen is correlated to emotional instability. It leads to false and rather crappy conclusions which misrepresent what hormones actually does to the human mind. Modern research on testosterone show that higher levels increase the response that a man or woman has when their social status is challenged. If social status is maintained in a group through violence and aggression then those correlate to testosterone, but you can as easily have a company where productivity is the primary trait for social status and then testosterone levels will correlate to productivity when someone have their social status challenged. From a biological perspective, this has a very basic reason. Testosterone goes up when the chance for procreation is high and it can be seen as a modulating effect that encourage the individual to hold on to the current beneficial social status. Aggression in itself is not an effective strategy for that goal and is only relevant if the local culture reward aggression.
- baccheion 8y agoEnough (of both genders) were creepy and assuming/entitled while I was there in 2010. Being more beta, they tended to have difficulty getting laid unless rich and were more open to using/abusing any pull they were perceived to have.
- dagenix 8y ago> That said, male Google employees are probably less likely to sexually harass. They tend to be more nerdy, introverted, and less masculine(lower testosterone, less aggressive). Citation for either point that Google employees are "less masculine" (whatever that means) or that being "less masculine" has something to do with being less likely to sexually harass?
- slg 8y agoIs your argument here that Google punishes a high percentage of sexual harassers but only after they have accrued 20+ victims? Is that meant as a defense of Google? I would also object to that last paragraph for similar reasons that others in this thread have brought up.
- biglenny 8y agoWow I really hope I did not come off as defending sexual harassers in any way. I think many might have thought this because of my last paragraph which seems troll-like. I can assure you I don't defend that behavior and am not trolling. I am simply saying that your statistical analysis was flawed, because perpetrators can have multiple victims, and you had suggested, statistically, that one man fired means one woman harassed in one instance. Also given low rates of sexual assault reporting, it is likely that by the time a report is made, and even more-so investigated, that the perp has been involved in multiple instances of sexual harassment.
- slg 8y agoI didn’t say you were defending harassers, but it seemed like you were downplaying this as a sign of a problem for Google. Either way, the stats are so low that you either need a large number or unpunished harassers or harassers need to victimize a large number of people before they are caught.
- darkerside 8y agoYour statement is similarly nuanced and accurate to those made by James Damore, although obviously not as thoroughly documented. Not meant as a slight or a compliment, just making an observation.
- rtpg 8y agoTbh I’ve met a _lot_ of nerds who are complete creeps because they don’t understand shit and read some pickup artist’a blog Add any sort of power dynamic to that mix and...