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It tells me that I really shouldn't buy a Ford car, since apparently billing for repair parts is more important to them than building a robust and repairable ca

It tells me that I really shouldn't buy a Ford car, since apparently billing for repair parts is more important to them than building a robust and repairable car. Adding a tamper resistant circuit to random bits of your car's electronics is adding cost while reducing robustness - who wants that in their car?

peterhadlaw 8y ago
I hate to break it to you, but that's about every manufacturer now. Imagine how it's going to be once "drive-by-wire" becomes the standard. I'm right there with you though, wishing stuff stayed a little more repairable and maintainable.
quadrangle 8y ago
Ford is basically stopping production of cars anyway as they found that trucks are more profitable. But yeah, don't buy one of their trucks either. But what manufacturer is an alternative? Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances!
- cptskippy 8y ago
  > Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! That's a lie. Yes they have DRM in place to artificially limit the range of certain models, everything else you said is mischaracterization, misrepresentation, and lies. They saw opportunity in offering different ranged batteries of the same model, however the cost to produce two different battery capacities was too high. Instead of hiding this fact from the consumer, they instead offer it as an upgrade path if you one day have a need for the additional range. This sort of thing is done all of the time in manufacturing to streamline costs. They even do it with their Autopilot system, all Model 3s come with the same sensor package but the feature itself is unavailable unless you pay to unlock it. There's an advantage to doing this in that you do not have to guess at what consumer demand will be because you can lock/unlock features as needed in software based on consumer demand.
  - tempestn 8y ago
    Seems like a stretch to (repeatedly) characterize your parent's post as a "lie". You're both characterizing the same practice in different ways. I'm inclined to agree with everything else you said (although I dislike the barriers to independent maintenance of Teslas in general), but the parent's post was a spin, not a lie.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      Calling it ransom isn't spin, it's disingenuous. They paid for x range and received x range. They were given a standing offer to increase that range for a cost significantly less than the cost of replacing or physically upgrading the battery. Now if they had paid for 120kwh batteries and received 120kwh batteries that would only deliver 100kwh of range then we'd be having and entirely different conversation.
      - jtbayly 8y ago
        But they did. They paid for and received larger capacity batteries in their vehicles that are artificially hampered to a lower capacity.
        Latteland 8y ago
        They also stopped doing this practice, the new mid range m 3 have fewer batteries and are not software upgradeable. Is this better? Not sure.
        arcticbull 8y ago
        Net-net probably? Less batteries, lower weight, better performance, lower environmental impact from the waste of mining and throwing away that extra lithium you didn't pay to unlock...
        cptskippy 8y ago
        If you buy a 4 piece of chicken nuggets at McDonalds and they're out of 4 piece boxes so they put your 4 nuggets in a 9 piece box for you, have they cheated you out of 5 nuggets? No. Then why, if you pay for 100 kWh capacity, and they give it to you in a battery capable of 120 kWh capacity are they suddenly cheating you? Did you pay for the higher capacity? No. Did you get the capacity you paid for? Yes. Are you able to buy up to the higher capacity? Yes.
- SquishyPanda23 8y ago
  > Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! I think the effect of this sort of DRM is underestimated in many conversations about post-scarcity. People don't seem to appreciate that cryptography will create programmatic scarcity where previously we only had scarcity due to physical laws.
  - SturgeonsLaw 8y ago
    The bright side is that it's easier to crack software than it is to find new mineral ore deposits
- Latteland 8y ago
  In the past tesla sold the same hardware & number of batteries in two car models, but saved 10k in price for the shorter range one; and you could upgrade to the longer range by paying more. Just like for CPUs. In the new mid-range m 3 they have fewer batteries than the long range. Tesla eventually stopped selling the software upgradeable one, maybe because they bugged people.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

peterhadlaw 8y ago

I hate to break it to you, but that's about every manufacturer now. Imagine how it's going to be once "drive-by-wire" becomes the standard. I'm right there with you though, wishing stuff stayed a little more repairable and maintainable.

quadrangle 8y ago

Ford is basically stopping production of cars anyway as they found that trucks are more profitable. But yeah, don't buy one of their trucks either. But what manufacturer is an alternative? Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances!

cptskippy 8y ago
> Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! That's a lie. Yes they have DRM in place to artificially limit the range of certain models, everything else you said is mischaracterization, misrepresentation, and lies. They saw opportunity in offering different ranged batteries of the same model, however the cost to produce two different battery capacities was too high. Instead of hiding this fact from the consumer, they instead offer it as an upgrade path if you one day have a need for the additional range. This sort of thing is done all of the time in manufacturing to streamline costs. They even do it with their Autopilot system, all Model 3s come with the same sensor package but the feature itself is unavailable unless you pay to unlock it. There's an advantage to doing this in that you do not have to guess at what consumer demand will be because you can lock/unlock features as needed in software based on consumer demand.
- tempestn 8y ago
  Seems like a stretch to (repeatedly) characterize your parent's post as a "lie". You're both characterizing the same practice in different ways. I'm inclined to agree with everything else you said (although I dislike the barriers to independent maintenance of Teslas in general), but the parent's post was a spin, not a lie.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    Calling it ransom isn't spin, it's disingenuous. They paid for x range and received x range. They were given a standing offer to increase that range for a cost significantly less than the cost of replacing or physically upgrading the battery. Now if they had paid for 120kwh batteries and received 120kwh batteries that would only deliver 100kwh of range then we'd be having and entirely different conversation.
    - jtbayly 8y ago
      But they did. They paid for and received larger capacity batteries in their vehicles that are artificially hampered to a lower capacity.
      - Latteland 8y ago
        They also stopped doing this practice, the new mid range m 3 have fewer batteries and are not software upgradeable. Is this better? Not sure.
        arcticbull 8y ago
        Net-net probably? Less batteries, lower weight, better performance, lower environmental impact from the waste of mining and throwing away that extra lithium you didn't pay to unlock...
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        If you buy a 4 piece of chicken nuggets at McDonalds and they're out of 4 piece boxes so they put your 4 nuggets in a 9 piece box for you, have they cheated you out of 5 nuggets? No. Then why, if you pay for 100 kWh capacity, and they give it to you in a battery capable of 120 kWh capacity are they suddenly cheating you? Did you pay for the higher capacity? No. Did you get the capacity you paid for? Yes. Are you able to buy up to the higher capacity? Yes.
SquishyPanda23 8y ago
> Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! I think the effect of this sort of DRM is underestimated in many conversations about post-scarcity. People don't seem to appreciate that cryptography will create programmatic scarcity where previously we only had scarcity due to physical laws.
- SturgeonsLaw 8y ago
  The bright side is that it's easier to crack software than it is to find new mineral ore deposits
Latteland 8y ago
In the past tesla sold the same hardware & number of batteries in two car models, but saved 10k in price for the shorter range one; and you could upgrade to the longer range by paying more. Just like for CPUs. In the new mid-range m 3 they have fewer batteries than the long range. Tesla eventually stopped selling the software upgradeable one, maybe because they bugged people.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]