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I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value dive

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
babygoat 8y ago
It's also the most incompatible point of view. They do not want to be around diversity.
- mantas 8y ago
  The word "diversity" is kinda loosing it's meaning when there's a specific thing to be described as "diversity".
  - babygoat 8y ago
    If people who look, think, dress, act, love, or worship differently than they do are "a specific thing", then sure.
    - mantas 8y ago
      A lot of "diversity" is confined to US progressive style who are kinda similar in all of those things. Especially those who think that conservatives wouldn't want to be around them.
- sydd 8y ago
  Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?
  - Frondo 8y ago
    Well, conservatives in the US have thrown in with a party that typically demonizes people of color, is actively working to disenfranchise them, and has a growing white nationalist element to it. Are there some conservatives who really just care about there being too much government regulation, or whatever? Sure. Looking at the party they rally around and the way it wants to treat people, there sure are some general trends that do not speak to a desire to embrace diversity.
    - Konnstann 8y ago
      There's a difference between being a Republican, and being a Conservative. To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. There still exist factions that resulted in the passage of a lot of Democratic policies while the Reps. controlled Congress during the last presidency. While I don't support the Republican party, I still hold conservative ideals, primarily regarding regulation and oversight. My social views are fairly liberal, but I don't identify with the progressive movement and intersectional politics. EDIT: I think diversity is great, but diversity as an end goal is misguided.
      - babygoat 8y ago
        > To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. What on earth are you talking about?
    - mantas 8y ago
      TBH the other side is kinda big on demonising people of certain color, sex and sexual orientation too. The whole identity politics thing is disgusting regardless of vector.
  - babygoat 8y ago
    Yes, and no.
- subjectsigma 8y ago
  Unless you've spoken with them all to clarify, you're just leaning on a negative stereotype.
myWindoonn 8y ago
I know that y'all feel oppressed, but the most-excluded are those who are homeless, computerless, penniless, and therefore voiceless. They aren't our customers, they aren't our users, they aren't our investors, they aren't our employees, and so it shouldn't be surprising that we pay them no attention.
nil-value 8y ago
Universities are similar, claiming they champion diversity, but (usually) not wanting diverse political thought.
- babygoat 8y ago
  This is another case of shitting all over something for years and years and then trying to play the victim.
zerkten 8y ago
> their point of view is the most absent from tech. How so?
btown 8y ago
It’s a shame, because although I have strong liberal views, healthy skepticism of established, centrally organized programs is something that we as engineers should 100% listen to, and it’s the basis for much conservative economic thought. Unfortunately, people wanting to share that healthy skepticism are now associated with a party whose membership is also increasingly racist, violent, and oppressive of personal freedoms. SV should think back to first principals: one is not guilty of the stereotypes of that group simply by sharing a subset of their thoughts. I find the New York scene more understanding of this nuance. All that said, painting oneself as “the most excluded” is an exaggeration that does nobody any favors, and perpetuates this stereotype that conservatives are close minded. Understanding that there are people with needs far more fundamental than career and self-actualization is necessary for one to make well-advised policy recommendations, be they conservative or liberal.
Will_Parker 8y ago
Even being far left on most measures, being openly critical of intersectionality has become equally problematic (for lack of a better term).
- nil-value 8y ago
  This isn't true. Can you cite examples?
  - Will_Parker 8y ago
    One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it. Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-brogrammer-culture-now-were-undoing-it https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-... Being so sure my claim isn't true, can you cite examples of someone criticizing intersectionality in tech, and it not leading to controversy?
    - nil-value 8y ago
      Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.
      - Will_Parker 8y ago
        Sorry, I can't parse your question! I believe that the term "white brogrammer culture", as a pejorative, is sexist and racist and insulting. (See the article I mentioned for a use of this term.) And I've observed that pointing this out leads to trouble. Can you give an example of a critique of intersectionality that is acceptable in a tech company? I suspect you can't.
darkr 8y ago
Absolutely, people like Peter Thiel need and deserve our support. On a more serious note, I don't think this is the case. It's highly likely that coming out as pro capitalism, pro lower-taxation, and pro small government will not be career ending. What might be career ending however, is bringing all of your friends, family and colleagues together to declare yourself an out and proud dickhead.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mixmastamyk 8y ago
They shouldn't be when there are so many libertarians in tech that'd prefer small government. Should have something in common. The problem is the majority of republicans are backwards on social issues and trapped by low-brow "conservative" media. William Buckley must have turned over in his grave.
threatofrain 8y ago
We should consider the life experience of the homosexual boy or girl, who exists underfoot as a pawn for American Christian moral whim. American Christians constitute such a majority that if they willed something, then a mountain would move, such as tax and finance reform which considers the sacred issue of poverty. Unfortunately American Christians have been focused on sexuality for the last decade, but that's really not fair because it ignores the very real Satanic sexual moral scares that swept the nation not long before that. One should also consider that those who go to churches may have better professional views than those who don't. There are Christian professional job networks there, and if you aren't in there, maybe sucks for you. You seem to think that all weights considered, you experience net career disadvantage for showing your face as one of the moral majority. I would argue those who aren't in these professional networks don't know what they're missing out on. I would also argue that if you come from a poor Christian background, you should try church hopping. Bay Area churches are bastions of quality and professional life. One should also consider the privilege that is afforded to churches as a tax-exempt organization that does just about everything, including competing in the daycare services market (do you pay for daycare?). One should consider whether any other group is about to gain that same power of tax exemption, which is arguably one of the most lofty powers in a taxed modern life. This is a privilege cloaked in power.
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep religious flamewar off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - threatofrain 8y ago
    I was discussing religion in the scope of American political conservatism, or does one imagine a robust discourse of power that somehow ignores Christianity, the dominant religion of America? Am I not contributing something "new to say"? Who here is talking about the intersection of Bay Area churches, tech, professionalism and employment, and financial status? How much more curating or moderating will it take?
tzs 8y ago
What exactly do you mean by "conservative republican"? Back in the middle of 2016, conservative author and Research Fellow at the Cato Institute P.J. O'Rourke made a surprising announcement: "I have a little announcement to make ... I'm voting for Hillary. I am endorsing Hillary. I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises. It's the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she's way behind in second place. She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters." If someone is a "conservative republican" as the term would have been understood 20 years ago, or perhaps even as late as 10 years ago, I think they could openly state their political positions in SV today without any dire consequences, if they stated them without actually saying they are "conservative republicans". Liberals would think that some of those positions, or even most of them, are wrong, but they would think they are, as O'Rourke would say, wrong within normal parameters. Heck, some of the major ideas from those classic "conservative republicans" could probably even build up some strong liberal support today. Conservative republicans are behind one of the best proposals for addressing climate change, for example [1]. But those kind of "conservative republicans" aren't openly welcome in the Republican party any more. They are still around, but they are keeping silent. What was once the right's conspiracy nut lunatic fringe has effectively taken over the party, or at least taken over the party's messaging. Those are the people that come to mind now if you label yourself "conservative republican" without further clarification. [1] https://www.clcouncil.org/ https://www.clcouncil.org/
archagon 8y ago
Donald Trump (R) proudly proclaimed himself a nationalist at a rally a few days ago. The Party continues to stand behind him. The frog is almost boiled. At this point, I can no longer spare any empathy for those who identify as Republican and yet somehow feel oppressed. They are directly threatening my country, my way of life, and our collective peace. Fix your party or face the music.
naikrovek 8y ago
Absent from tech in Silicon Valley maybe. Go work in IT at State Farm Insurance or some other tech area east of Silicon Valley and observe the absolute and complete lack of openly liberal or openly atheist tech people. It's the end of a job, often, to say that you are liberal or atheist in many places I've worked. Conservative Christians are definitely not a minority in my experience; they are a very vocal majority.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

babygoat 8y ago

It's also the most incompatible point of view. They do not want to be around diversity.

mantas 8y ago
The word "diversity" is kinda loosing it's meaning when there's a specific thing to be described as "diversity".
- babygoat 8y ago
  If people who look, think, dress, act, love, or worship differently than they do are "a specific thing", then sure.
  - mantas 8y ago
    A lot of "diversity" is confined to US progressive style who are kinda similar in all of those things. Especially those who think that conservatives wouldn't want to be around them.
sydd 8y ago
Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?
- Frondo 8y ago
  Well, conservatives in the US have thrown in with a party that typically demonizes people of color, is actively working to disenfranchise them, and has a growing white nationalist element to it. Are there some conservatives who really just care about there being too much government regulation, or whatever? Sure. Looking at the party they rally around and the way it wants to treat people, there sure are some general trends that do not speak to a desire to embrace diversity.
  - Konnstann 8y ago
    There's a difference between being a Republican, and being a Conservative. To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. There still exist factions that resulted in the passage of a lot of Democratic policies while the Reps. controlled Congress during the last presidency. While I don't support the Republican party, I still hold conservative ideals, primarily regarding regulation and oversight. My social views are fairly liberal, but I don't identify with the progressive movement and intersectional politics. EDIT: I think diversity is great, but diversity as an end goal is misguided.
    - babygoat 8y ago
      > To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. What on earth are you talking about?
  - mantas 8y ago
    TBH the other side is kinda big on demonising people of certain color, sex and sexual orientation too. The whole identity politics thing is disgusting regardless of vector.
- babygoat 8y ago
  Yes, and no.
subjectsigma 8y ago
Unless you've spoken with them all to clarify, you're just leaning on a negative stereotype.

myWindoonn 8y ago

I know that y'all feel oppressed, but the most-excluded are those who are homeless, computerless, penniless, and therefore voiceless. They aren't our customers, they aren't our users, they aren't our investors, they aren't our employees, and so it shouldn't be surprising that we pay them no attention.

nil-value 8y ago

Universities are similar, claiming they champion diversity, but (usually) not wanting diverse political thought.

babygoat 8y ago
This is another case of shitting all over something for years and years and then trying to play the victim.

zerkten 8y ago

> their point of view is the most absent from tech. How so?

btown 8y ago

It’s a shame, because although I have strong liberal views, healthy skepticism of established, centrally organized programs is something that we as engineers should 100% listen to, and it’s the basis for much conservative economic thought. Unfortunately, people wanting to share that healthy skepticism are now associated with a party whose membership is also increasingly racist, violent, and oppressive of personal freedoms. SV should think back to first principals: one is not guilty of the stereotypes of that group simply by sharing a subset of their thoughts. I find the New York scene more understanding of this nuance. All that said, painting oneself as “the most excluded” is an exaggeration that does nobody any favors, and perpetuates this stereotype that conservatives are close minded. Understanding that there are people with needs far more fundamental than career and self-actualization is necessary for one to make well-advised policy recommendations, be they conservative or liberal.

Will_Parker 8y ago

Even being far left on most measures, being openly critical of intersectionality has become equally problematic (for lack of a better term).

nil-value 8y ago
This isn't true. Can you cite examples?
- Will_Parker 8y ago
  One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it. Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-brogrammer-culture-now-were-undoing-it https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-... Being so sure my claim isn't true, can you cite examples of someone criticizing intersectionality in tech, and it not leading to controversy?
  - nil-value 8y ago
    Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.
    - Will_Parker 8y ago
      Sorry, I can't parse your question! I believe that the term "white brogrammer culture", as a pejorative, is sexist and racist and insulting. (See the article I mentioned for a use of this term.) And I've observed that pointing this out leads to trouble. Can you give an example of a critique of intersectionality that is acceptable in a tech company? I suspect you can't.

darkr 8y ago

Absolutely, people like Peter Thiel need and deserve our support. On a more serious note, I don't think this is the case. It's highly likely that coming out as pro capitalism, pro lower-taxation, and pro small government will not be career ending. What might be career ending however, is bringing all of your friends, family and colleagues together to declare yourself an out and proud dickhead.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

mixmastamyk 8y ago

They shouldn't be when there are so many libertarians in tech that'd prefer small government. Should have something in common. The problem is the majority of republicans are backwards on social issues and trapped by low-brow "conservative" media. William Buckley must have turned over in his grave.

threatofrain 8y ago

We should consider the life experience of the homosexual boy or girl, who exists underfoot as a pawn for American Christian moral whim. American Christians constitute such a majority that if they willed something, then a mountain would move, such as tax and finance reform which considers the sacred issue of poverty. Unfortunately American Christians have been focused on sexuality for the last decade, but that's really not fair because it ignores the very real Satanic sexual moral scares that swept the nation not long before that. One should also consider that those who go to churches may have better professional views than those who don't. There are Christian professional job networks there, and if you aren't in there, maybe sucks for you. You seem to think that all weights considered, you experience net career disadvantage for showing your face as one of the moral majority. I would argue those who aren't in these professional networks don't know what they're missing out on. I would also argue that if you come from a poor Christian background, you should try church hopping. Bay Area churches are bastions of quality and professional life. One should also consider the privilege that is afforded to churches as a tax-exempt organization that does just about everything, including competing in the daycare services market (do you pay for daycare?). One should consider whether any other group is about to gain that same power of tax exemption, which is arguably one of the most lofty powers in a taxed modern life. This is a privilege cloaked in power.

dang 8y ago
Please keep religious flamewar off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- threatofrain 8y ago
  I was discussing religion in the scope of American political conservatism, or does one imagine a robust discourse of power that somehow ignores Christianity, the dominant religion of America? Am I not contributing something "new to say"? Who here is talking about the intersection of Bay Area churches, tech, professionalism and employment, and financial status? How much more curating or moderating will it take?

tzs 8y ago

What exactly do you mean by "conservative republican"? Back in the middle of 2016, conservative author and Research Fellow at the Cato Institute P.J. O'Rourke made a surprising announcement: "I have a little announcement to make ... I'm voting for Hillary. I am endorsing Hillary. I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises. It's the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she's way behind in second place. She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters." If someone is a "conservative republican" as the term would have been understood 20 years ago, or perhaps even as late as 10 years ago, I think they could openly state their political positions in SV today without any dire consequences, if they stated them without actually saying they are "conservative republicans". Liberals would think that some of those positions, or even most of them, are wrong, but they would think they are, as O'Rourke would say, wrong within normal parameters. Heck, some of the major ideas from those classic "conservative republicans" could probably even build up some strong liberal support today. Conservative republicans are behind one of the best proposals for addressing climate change, for example [1]. But those kind of "conservative republicans" aren't openly welcome in the Republican party any more. They are still around, but they are keeping silent. What was once the right's conspiracy nut lunatic fringe has effectively taken over the party, or at least taken over the party's messaging. Those are the people that come to mind now if you label yourself "conservative republican" without further clarification. [1] https://www.clcouncil.org/ https://www.clcouncil.org/

archagon 8y ago

Donald Trump (R) proudly proclaimed himself a nationalist at a rally a few days ago. The Party continues to stand behind him. The frog is almost boiled. At this point, I can no longer spare any empathy for those who identify as Republican and yet somehow feel oppressed. They are directly threatening my country, my way of life, and our collective peace. Fix your party or face the music.

naikrovek 8y ago

Absent from tech in Silicon Valley maybe. Go work in IT at State Farm Insurance or some other tech area east of Silicon Valley and observe the absolute and complete lack of openly liberal or openly atheist tech people. It's the end of a job, often, to say that you are liberal or atheist in many places I've worked. Conservative Christians are definitely not a minority in my experience; they are a very vocal majority.