5 ms·

The gains have been looted by the healthcare providers. It is not uncommon for health coverage to exceed $2k/mo for a typical family of 4, that's $24k/year. The

The gains have been looted by the healthcare providers. It is not uncommon for health coverage to exceed $2k/mo for a typical family of 4, that's $24k/year. The median US household income is $59k, so the total comp is $83k/year. See the gains now? This absurd amount is not reflected in a paycheck and one may think "my job pays for it" but that is still your money.

corey_moncure 8y ago
This is correct. I dropped my "Affordable" Care Act plan in January when BCBS quoted a monthly principal increase from $696 to over $2200 for the Silver level plan my family of four had been enrolled in. We are young and healthy. $2200 is monthly rent on a luxury condominium in Honolulu. I asked the agent on the phone if he had children, and if he could afford such a plan. He replied that he could not.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- shard972 8y ago
  Well thats just going to make health insurance more expensive for more people now isn't it? IIRC poor people get subsidised healthcare now so if the middle class workers aren't paying for healthcare... who is?
JAlexoid 8y ago
Actually your contribution to the healthcare is reflected in the data that ic collected, as the data is from IRS. So... While your employer may pony up 50% of the cost, you get stuck with the other half on your tax return.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
So do we see that in other countries without outrageous healthcare premiums? I don't know, but I'm sure there are examples of countries where a company won't be paying for that and causing one's wage to stagnate because of it.
- photojosh 8y ago
  We don't have those premiums in Australia, and many of us only have private healthcare because we get taxed more if we don't... because of the good public health system it's not required. Our payment is A$320 (US$230) for a family of 4. But wages are still stagnant here. AFAICT US employers cover healthcare because that's how it's historically set up, and that's now the expectation. So if they tried to pull back on paying it, even with the crazy increases, employees would walk. Whereas here, health insurance has nothing to do with employment. But in both our cases, there's little providing upward pressure on "direct" wages.
krupan 8y ago
On the other hand, my medical supplies and devices fund in my IRA is way up
- sangnoir 8y ago
  Not to get all Marxist - but using IRA's/401k's to get labor to go all-in on the stock-market was one hell of a judo move by the American capital class.
  - wasdfff 8y ago
    A pension might have been swell if you planned on working at pan am for half a century. I can take my IRA anywhere. The worker is unshackled from the pension purse their employer dangled over their head to keep them complicit and loyal to the executive board for decades.
    - EADGBE 8y ago
      This. They're no longer tied to the employer in hopes of good retirement, they can instead shop around for raises/skills. Which is more money which can be self-invested back into the self-pension/401k. In 401k matching situations, this means more matched, too, instead of an arbitrary salary promise after retirement. I do not have numbers for comparison of pension vs 401k/self-funded pension. Though I'd love to see what either gets you in similar contributions.
  - krupan 8y ago
    I had to reread your comment several times before I think I parsed it correctly. "Labor" is people, right? But not the same people as "The American Capital Class"? Anyway, I'm pretty sure there are bond and cash options in most retirement accounts, if the stock market isn't your thing. And my original comment wasn't really saying I'm happy about the rising costs of health care, just pointing out a small silver lining to it, or maybe just an idea of how to make it hurt less.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    I think its fantastic both ways, it helps both sides close a gap. When you have a large divide between, then you get general intents to tax, seize and punish stocks. In argentina, whenever the stock market goes up 5% the marxist-left goes bonkers on all fronts saying the economy is tanking and workers are being robbed. Literally.
jorblumesea 8y ago
That is just one example, the truth is that American society has many such "middleman looters" which exploit the system for gain at the expense of the middle and working classes. A few examples: * Student loan industry / higher education debt * Unaffordable housing and exploitative renting due to NIMBY building practices * Police ticketing as a revenue stream for municipal tax authorities All of this either didn't exist for their parents, or were not as severe. All of this adds up to a middle class which has significantly less than their parents.

corey_moncure 8y ago

This is correct. I dropped my "Affordable" Care Act plan in January when BCBS quoted a monthly principal increase from $696 to over $2200 for the Silver level plan my family of four had been enrolled in. We are young and healthy. $2200 is monthly rent on a luxury condominium in Honolulu. I asked the agent on the phone if he had children, and if he could afford such a plan. He replied that he could not.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
shard972 8y ago
Well thats just going to make health insurance more expensive for more people now isn't it? IIRC poor people get subsidised healthcare now so if the middle class workers aren't paying for healthcare... who is?

JAlexoid 8y ago

Actually your contribution to the healthcare is reflected in the data that ic collected, as the data is from IRS. So... While your employer may pony up 50% of the cost, you get stuck with the other half on your tax return.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

So do we see that in other countries without outrageous healthcare premiums? I don't know, but I'm sure there are examples of countries where a company won't be paying for that and causing one's wage to stagnate because of it.

photojosh 8y ago
We don't have those premiums in Australia, and many of us only have private healthcare because we get taxed more if we don't... because of the good public health system it's not required. Our payment is A$320 (US$230) for a family of 4. But wages are still stagnant here. AFAICT US employers cover healthcare because that's how it's historically set up, and that's now the expectation. So if they tried to pull back on paying it, even with the crazy increases, employees would walk. Whereas here, health insurance has nothing to do with employment. But in both our cases, there's little providing upward pressure on "direct" wages.

krupan 8y ago

On the other hand, my medical supplies and devices fund in my IRA is way up

sangnoir 8y ago
Not to get all Marxist - but using IRA's/401k's to get labor to go all-in on the stock-market was one hell of a judo move by the American capital class.
- wasdfff 8y ago
  A pension might have been swell if you planned on working at pan am for half a century. I can take my IRA anywhere. The worker is unshackled from the pension purse their employer dangled over their head to keep them complicit and loyal to the executive board for decades.
  - EADGBE 8y ago
    This. They're no longer tied to the employer in hopes of good retirement, they can instead shop around for raises/skills. Which is more money which can be self-invested back into the self-pension/401k. In 401k matching situations, this means more matched, too, instead of an arbitrary salary promise after retirement. I do not have numbers for comparison of pension vs 401k/self-funded pension. Though I'd love to see what either gets you in similar contributions.
- krupan 8y ago
  I had to reread your comment several times before I think I parsed it correctly. "Labor" is people, right? But not the same people as "The American Capital Class"? Anyway, I'm pretty sure there are bond and cash options in most retirement accounts, if the stock market isn't your thing. And my original comment wasn't really saying I'm happy about the rising costs of health care, just pointing out a small silver lining to it, or maybe just an idea of how to make it hurt less.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  I think its fantastic both ways, it helps both sides close a gap. When you have a large divide between, then you get general intents to tax, seize and punish stocks. In argentina, whenever the stock market goes up 5% the marxist-left goes bonkers on all fronts saying the economy is tanking and workers are being robbed. Literally.

jorblumesea 8y ago

That is just one example, the truth is that American society has many such "middleman looters" which exploit the system for gain at the expense of the middle and working classes. A few examples: * Student loan industry / higher education debt * Unaffordable housing and exploitative renting due to NIMBY building practices * Police ticketing as a revenue stream for municipal tax authorities All of this either didn't exist for their parents, or were not as severe. All of this adds up to a middle class which has significantly less than their parents.