3 ms·
If you're interested in learning more about this kind of thing, you want to look stuff related to "ullage". Fun fact: it doesn't actually take that much time w
by aw1621107 8y ago
If you're interested in learning more about this kind of thing, you want to look stuff related to "ullage".
Fun fact: it doesn't actually take that much time without forwards acceleration for ullage to become an issue. For example, the Saturn V included solid-fuel rockets on the interstage between the first and second stages to provide enough forwards acceleration for the second stage engines to ignite, even though the gap between the first stage engines shutting down and the second stage engines igniting wasn't more than several seconds [0, page 14]. You can see the exhaust from those motors on the outside of this video of the Apollo 4 first stage separation [1].
Another fun fact: instead of using smaller motors to provide acceleration between stages, (some?) Soviet rockets ignited upper-stage engines while the lower-stage engines were still firing ("hot-staging"). This is why some soviet rockets had a lattice (or lattices) between stages instead of solid metal.
Yet another fun fact: it doesn't take much acceleration to sufficiently settle the fuel for ignition. The Saturn V's S-IVB stage used its equivalent of its RCS system, which is normally used for attitude control, to settle its fuel prior to firing for trans-lunar injection.
If you're interested in installing KSP mods, RealFuels includes ullage simulation, so you'll need to have some method of providing acceleration to get larger rocket motors to ignite reliably.
[0]: http://web.mit.edu/digitalapollo/Documents/Chapter5/saturnas501.pdf http://web.mit.edu/digitalapollo/Documents/Chapter5/saturnas...
[1]: https://youtu.be/iJIY4n5oXjc?t=8 https://youtu.be/iJIY4n5oXjc?t=8
Edit: Fix description of hot-staging for Soviet rockets. Some Soviet rockets hot-staged their third stage and not their second stage, making the description incorrect.
- outworlder 8y agoOne thing I don't know if it is correct is that, on KSP, I've managed to deal with ullage using the overpowered reaction wheels (essentially using centripetal force). Pretty sure that would not work properly in real life, with real materials...
- aw1621107 8y agoIt's physically possible, but it almost certainly wouldn't be practical. The mass needed for a reaction wheel of the right size would probably make it too expensive, never mind the control and mechanical issues of dealing with an accelerating spinning rocket.
- outworlder 8y agoYeah, I don't think a rocket would like this lateral acceleration at all, even if we replaced the reaction wheels with something less far-fetched.
- le-mark 8y agoHa brilliant post, I always wondered about those lattice structures, I figured they were for mass saving, thanks!
- CarVac 8y agoAnother fun fact: you can replace the need for ullage acceleration with a Propellant Management Device that uses surface tension among other things to hold propellant enough to fuel an impulse that will settle the rest of the tank. http://www.pmdtechnology.com/Index.html http://www.pmdtechnology.com/Index.html For very low accelerations, they can even draw propellant "upwards" against the acceleration.
- JKCalhoun 8y agoThis classic clip of the Saturn launch shows three ullage rockets firing before the main (liquid) engine kicks on: https://youtu.be/jPDkagD50XU?t=95 https://youtu.be/jPDkagD50XU?t=95