5 ms·

And this article doesn't even cover Tony Fadell and the Nest nightmare... Holy cow, how could so many smart people at Google be so stupid?

icebraining 8y ago
What Nest nightmare?
- romed 8y ago
  Well there was the $3.2 billion dollar acquisition of a company whose products are complete garbage, but I guess the OP was referring to Fadell's notoriously rude behavior toward his subordinates.
vkou 8y ago
Just because you're smart, doesn't mean that you don't harass people at work. Richard Feynman was a brilliant man, but was utterly horrible to the women he worked with. Every company that's large enough has a few people participating in unintentional, or highly intentional harassment. What you should judge companies on, is how they deal with it - especially when the perpetrator is not some middle-manager, but a rockstar.
- icebraining 8y ago
  How was Feynman horrible to the women he worked with?
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    There's a summary with links here: https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richard-feynman/ https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richa... But he also describes a lot of his attitudes toward women in Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman, and by modern standards they would basically fall into the PUA/RedPill category.
    - phonon 8y ago
      I don't see anything there that backs up "utterly horrible to the women he worked with"
    - microtherion 8y ago
      And James Gleick's biography of Feynman, "Genius", goes in considerable detail on this aspect: https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman-ebook/dp/B004LRPQIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540489683&sr=8-1&keywords=genius+gleick https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman-e...
    - icebraining 8y ago
      I found that link before asking, and I read SYJMF, but neither actually talk about female coworkers, hence wondering if there was something more than I had missed. I have no intention of defending (or attacking) Feynman, I was merely curious.
  - danso 8y ago
    Feynman is such an engaging writer in his autobiographies that if you only read stories from him about himself, some of his problematic attitudes can seem just funny quirky stories: https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/ https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-... In his biography of Feynman, Lawrence Krauss apparently details incidents in which Feynman had affairs with his colleagues' wives, and even pretended to be a student to chase co-eds. Some biographers have suggested (but not justified) that Feynman's behavior is partly due to the loss of his young wife. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8586536-quantum-man https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8586536-quantum-man
  - packetslave 8y ago
    From http://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/ http://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine... The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of this if it bothered her. "Yes, it really annoys me," she said. "On the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me as if I could understand it." That was the essence of Richard's charm.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Thanks!
- pdpi 8y ago
  > Just because you're smart, doesn't mean that you don't harass people at work. I think the point was "how could smart people be so stupid at managing this sort of situation in a way that won't blow up in their faces later down the line".
  - dylan604 8y ago
    Anecdotal evidence would suggest that "really smart" people have some lacking in other areas most commonly social skills. It can be tough working alongside this kind of person when they constantly think they are working with "lesser" people whether that's based on knowledge/skill or race/sex.
  - BoltVanderhuge 8y ago
    I think the answer is that it's only recently that this stuff really began blowing up in people's faces.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    Well, sadly it seems like this hasn't been blowing up in their faces for most of these people...
- phonon 8y ago
  > Richard Feynman was a brilliant man, but was utterly horrible to the women he worked with. Absurd--where did you get that from?
jzzi39mzlj 8y ago
If you agree with neuroscience, this isn't a shock. Human behavior flows from the emotional, fight or flight, center of the brain known as the amygdala, to the "switchboard" called the prefrontal cortex. Where those signals go next depends on the kind of sensory input. The amygdala can overpower our reasoning, even when we think we're being perfectly reasonable. Hiding something can seem much more reasonable than preparing for unknown level of backlash. IMO, thank our authoritarian culture which conditions us from childhood to push down on those "below us" to gain approval from those "above us". We lie, cheat, and steal to maintain that status quo.
pyrophane 8y ago
They are smart, sure, but that doesn't mean they are also clever, and it certainly doesn't mean they are wise.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
People gravitate towards environments where they can do what they want. If you've read anything about Sergey Brin and his behavior towards women who worked at Google, especially in the early days, and the fact that he's still where he is, tells anyone who's looking for a safe place to sexually harass women that Google is a safe place to operate. https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-...

icebraining 8y ago

What Nest nightmare?

romed 8y ago
Well there was the $3.2 billion dollar acquisition of a company whose products are complete garbage, but I guess the OP was referring to Fadell's notoriously rude behavior toward his subordinates.

vkou 8y ago

Just because you're smart, doesn't mean that you don't harass people at work. Richard Feynman was a brilliant man, but was utterly horrible to the women he worked with. Every company that's large enough has a few people participating in unintentional, or highly intentional harassment. What you should judge companies on, is how they deal with it - especially when the perpetrator is not some middle-manager, but a rockstar.

icebraining 8y ago
How was Feynman horrible to the women he worked with?
- nostrademons 8y ago
  There's a summary with links here: https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richard-feynman/ https://galileospendulum.org/2014/07/13/the-problem-of-richa... But he also describes a lot of his attitudes toward women in Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman, and by modern standards they would basically fall into the PUA/RedPill category.
  - phonon 8y ago
    I don't see anything there that backs up "utterly horrible to the women he worked with"
  - microtherion 8y ago
    And James Gleick's biography of Feynman, "Genius", goes in considerable detail on this aspect: https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman-ebook/dp/B004LRPQIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540489683&sr=8-1&keywords=genius+gleick https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman-e...
  - icebraining 8y ago
    I found that link before asking, and I read SYJMF, but neither actually talk about female coworkers, hence wondering if there was something more than I had missed. I have no intention of defending (or attacking) Feynman, I was merely curious.
- danso 8y ago
  Feynman is such an engaging writer in his autobiographies that if you only read stories from him about himself, some of his problematic attitudes can seem just funny quirky stories: https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/ https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-... In his biography of Feynman, Lawrence Krauss apparently details incidents in which Feynman had affairs with his colleagues' wives, and even pretended to be a student to chase co-eds. Some biographers have suggested (but not justified) that Feynman's behavior is partly due to the loss of his young wife. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8586536-quantum-man https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8586536-quantum-man
- packetslave 8y ago
  From http://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/ http://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine... The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of this if it bothered her. "Yes, it really annoys me," she said. "On the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me as if I could understand it." That was the essence of Richard's charm.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Thanks!
pdpi 8y ago
> Just because you're smart, doesn't mean that you don't harass people at work. I think the point was "how could smart people be so stupid at managing this sort of situation in a way that won't blow up in their faces later down the line".
- dylan604 8y ago
  Anecdotal evidence would suggest that "really smart" people have some lacking in other areas most commonly social skills. It can be tough working alongside this kind of person when they constantly think they are working with "lesser" people whether that's based on knowledge/skill or race/sex.
- BoltVanderhuge 8y ago
  I think the answer is that it's only recently that this stuff really began blowing up in people's faces.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Well, sadly it seems like this hasn't been blowing up in their faces for most of these people...
phonon 8y ago
> Richard Feynman was a brilliant man, but was utterly horrible to the women he worked with. Absurd--where did you get that from?

jzzi39mzlj 8y ago

If you agree with neuroscience, this isn't a shock. Human behavior flows from the emotional, fight or flight, center of the brain known as the amygdala, to the "switchboard" called the prefrontal cortex. Where those signals go next depends on the kind of sensory input. The amygdala can overpower our reasoning, even when we think we're being perfectly reasonable. Hiding something can seem much more reasonable than preparing for unknown level of backlash. IMO, thank our authoritarian culture which conditions us from childhood to push down on those "below us" to gain approval from those "above us". We lie, cheat, and steal to maintain that status quo.

pyrophane 8y ago

They are smart, sure, but that doesn't mean they are also clever, and it certainly doesn't mean they are wise.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

People gravitate towards environments where they can do what they want. If you've read anything about Sergey Brin and his behavior towards women who worked at Google, especially in the early days, and the fact that he's still where he is, tells anyone who's looking for a safe place to sexually harass women that Google is a safe place to operate. https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-some-strange-ideas-about-his-female-employees-according-to-a-new-book/ https://qz.com/work/1326942/sergey-brin-started-google-with-...