3 ms·

> we live in a country of laws and rules. Isn't "innocent until proven guilty" one of those rules? And aren't "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" sup

> we live in a country of laws and rules. Isn't "innocent until proven guilty" one of those rules? And aren't "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" supposed to be inalienable human rights? Do you suppose the people who wrote that believed that these "self-evident truths" only applied to people born in a country that didn't exist yet? > If an Immigrant comes here without proper authorization, without a visa, or stays on an expired visa There you go again, pretending that ICE/CBP never bother anybody who's here legally. That's just not reality, and the cases where they overstep their own legal bounds are the ones that are most relevant here. We are a country of laws and rules, with nobody above those, right?

lykr0n 8y ago
> Isn't "innocent until proven guilty" one of those rules? Yeah. If I stab someone, and they get a picture of the event on camera, and then use that picture to find me- that's ok. They don't need to convict me to do that. > And aren't "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" supposed to be inalienable human rights? Yep. The pursuit of happiness is to steal everything you own. By your implied logic, that should be 100% legal. Subsequent laws have no affect if they violate those three things, right? > There you go again, pretending that ICE/CBP never bother anybody who's here legally. That's just not reality, and the cases where they overstep their own legal bounds are the ones that are most relevant here. We are a country of laws and rules, with nobody above those, right? You're trying to conflate illegal immigration with ICE/CBP abuses. They are two different issues.
biglenny 8y ago
In this thread, you seem to be equating the infrequent overstepping of legal boundaries with an act that is fundamentally illegal, without exception.
- notacoward 8y ago
  No, I'm saying that the "fundamentally illegal" act is irrelevant. The reason people even care about AWS helping ICE is entirely about their abusive behavior, not the proper discharge of their legitimate legal duties. Just like #BlackLivesMatter isn't about police being professional as they apprehend actual criminals and do other things to keep us all safe. Abuse is abuse, no matter what surrounds it, and there should be zero tolerance for it.
  - biglenny 8y ago
    I think you'll find that most people who dislike ICE do so because they are opposed to the acts they are designed to carry out (i.e., deportations). In this very thread, you have declared opposition to deportations. And regarding AWS, the technology will allow ICE to carry out it's job more effectively (i.e., more deportations). This is clearly upsetting for some.

lykr0n 8y ago

> Isn't "innocent until proven guilty" one of those rules? Yeah. If I stab someone, and they get a picture of the event on camera, and then use that picture to find me- that's ok. They don't need to convict me to do that. > And aren't "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" supposed to be inalienable human rights? Yep. The pursuit of happiness is to steal everything you own. By your implied logic, that should be 100% legal. Subsequent laws have no affect if they violate those three things, right? > There you go again, pretending that ICE/CBP never bother anybody who's here legally. That's just not reality, and the cases where they overstep their own legal bounds are the ones that are most relevant here. We are a country of laws and rules, with nobody above those, right? You're trying to conflate illegal immigration with ICE/CBP abuses. They are two different issues.

biglenny 8y ago

In this thread, you seem to be equating the infrequent overstepping of legal boundaries with an act that is fundamentally illegal, without exception.

notacoward 8y ago
No, I'm saying that the "fundamentally illegal" act is irrelevant. The reason people even care about AWS helping ICE is entirely about their abusive behavior, not the proper discharge of their legitimate legal duties. Just like #BlackLivesMatter isn't about police being professional as they apprehend actual criminals and do other things to keep us all safe. Abuse is abuse, no matter what surrounds it, and there should be zero tolerance for it.
- biglenny 8y ago
  I think you'll find that most people who dislike ICE do so because they are opposed to the acts they are designed to carry out (i.e., deportations). In this very thread, you have declared opposition to deportations. And regarding AWS, the technology will allow ICE to carry out it's job more effectively (i.e., more deportations). This is clearly upsetting for some.