9 ms·

Poutine Dynamics (2016)

47 points by arayh 8y ago

beager 8y ago
I thought this would be an examination of the fluid dynamics of poutine, perhaps a revelation that fully-integrated poutine dishes are non-Newtonian fluids. Additionally: given the heavy cultural significance ascribed to poutine by this “paper”, would it follow that the import of poutine in US places like New York under the name “disco fries” constitutes an egregious form of cultural appropriation and erasure? I just want to enjoy my fries, man.
bungie4 8y ago
Living in Northern Ontario, I'm no stranger to Poutine. All sorts of places are popping up selling 'flavoured' poutines. Nothing beats the original. In fact, the best poutine is found at chip stands with suspect food handling standards. Not in fast food places nor even restaurants. My personal favourite comes from the bush town of River Valley Ont. My god I could go for one now and it's only 8:30am. Hey, were all gonna die sometime!
Waterluvian 8y ago
I mentioned this in another thread. I'm a bit concerned about the possible effect of declaring "cultural appropriation" on poutine and other things. In my city, and possibly Ontario, and maybe all of Canada, Shawarma Poutine has become a big hit. It's poutine with Shawarma chicken shaved onto it. It's glorious. All the shops I've been to are run and owned by either Iranians or other middle Eastern immigrants. So to me it's a beautiful success story of immigration in Canada. These individuals are refining a brand new dish by combining middle Eastern and Quebecois food. If we call it cultural appropriation and wag our finger at it, we possibly lose out on new things like shawarma poutine. What's the fear? That others will embrace and adopt your culture? I feel less strongly about this part. I'm probably wrong. But I wonder if it has to do with the feeling I felt strongly as a kid. I played Bungie games like Marathon and Pathways before Halo came out. And then Halo arrived and a whole new breed of gamers appeared and made it their thing. They spoke like experts at the lunchroom table. But they didn't grok Bungie and didn't know the origins like I did. And it made me so inexplicably frustrated at them. They were stealing my thing. Edit: a lot of good responses that have opened my eyes to additional perspectives. If you've gone this far, be sure to read the responses, too!
- hunter2_ 8y ago
  I think you're right and it's about the context in which the newcomer acts. Immigrants making poutine (with their own ideas blended in) is not appropriation because it's happening in QC (or surrounding areas), but if they did the reverse -- not immigrating but staying put while making Schwarma Poutine in their homeland while flying Canadian flags -- appropriation (on two levels), not unlike festival goers wearing Native garb as a classic example.
- levesque 8y ago
  Even though probably everyone in your town eats sushi, a variant that is most likely wildly different from what the Japanese call sushi, people don't go around calling it a Canadian or American dish. Same goes here, I'd say. At its basis poutine was a Quebecois dish, and other people didn't want any part of it. Now it's popular and all of a sudden it's a Canadian staple? The setting is probably at the root of the issue. The article touched on the question of Quebec being recognized as a Nation within Canada. I guess if you don't acknowledge that part, no need to discuss it further, because Quebec is in Canada, therefore making it a Canadian dish. Without going in the question of independence, I have no problem admitting that Scotland has a different culture than the UK, or Catalonia from Spain, etc. I don't see a difference here with Quebec. The problem with cultural appropriation is not that the thing is embraced by other cultures, the problem is the incorrect labeling. This reminds me of Borscht, that delicious eastern European beet soup. Is it Russian? Ukrainian? Polish? Ask any one of those nationalities and they will tell you they invented it.
  - lostconfused 8y ago
    I don't think I've ever encountered Russians claiming they invented borscth. It's more of a case of the west attributing most Eastern European culture to Russia. The other Easter European cultures obviously put some efforts to maintaining their identity in opposition to Russian dominance in the region.
    - levesque 8y ago
      Fair enough, probably a bad example.
cal5k 8y ago
The title is fun, but this is a terrible paper. Yes, Canadians poke fun at Québécois, and sometimes poutine is used (but rarely these days given its popularity). But a big part of Canadian culture is being “in on the joke”. We tend to love it when we’re satirized in the media, particularly American media. I think this appreciation for jokes made at our expense is partly responsible for our high volume of comedian exports. So we make fun of BC folk, they make fun of Torontonians; Quebecois make fun of Acadiens; we all make fun of PEI. It’s not done from malice, just good-natured ribbing about our differences. This paper is a great example of research-free critical theory.
- DKnoll 8y ago
  >We tend to love it when we’re satirized in the media, particularly American media. I don't at all. I find the same overplayed Canadian jokes from Americans extremely tiring and patronising. Don't use 'we' to refer to over 35m people.
  - cal5k 8y ago
    I think it’s possible to broadly generalize about a culture without needing to caveat that yes, obviously some people are different.
    - DKnoll 8y ago
      Just saying, speak for yourself, I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like to be steriotyped by ignorant people for laughs based on my nationality. As for the regional steriotypes about different provinces being 'fun' or 'lighthearted,' that is not always the case and many of them are rooted in historical military or political conflicts.
- jperras 8y ago
  > It’s not done from malice, just good-natured ribbing about our differences. I'm Québécois. My family has been Québécois for hundreds of years. My first language was French but I spoke English from a very young age, and went to a mixture of English and French schools. I watch Québécois movies and tv shows, listen to Québécois music and radio, and cook traditional Québécois food for myself and friends every chance I get. I can't vouch for any of the other Canadian subcultures you've named, but I can assure you that I never enjoyed the taunting, the name calling, the literal physical violence (I got beat up many times as kid because I was "one of those fucking French frogs"), and not to mention the inevitable eye rolling and pointed questions about why my particular cultural heritage was even allowed to exist in Canada. Some people view us as some sort of blight that needs to be eradicated because we don't fit the mould of what a "Canadian" is. I've had people tell me to my face that they "can't wait for the French to just die off in this country", and then laugh because they think it's a funny joke. I'm not saying everyone is like that, and things seem to have softened in the past few decades, but please don't believe that we enjoy being marginalized.
tracker1 8y ago
Cultural appropriation of foods is completely natural and should absolutely be encouraged... Do we really want southwest/mexican food without herbs based in europe and spices from the east? Or, for that matter, removing tortilla chips, or flour based tortillas. It's absurd to try to stop, and at a net loss to society to do so. It's been happening forever and it's a net good.

47 points by arayh 8y ago

I thought this would be an examination of the fluid dynamics of poutine, perhaps a revelation that fully-integrated poutine dishes are non-Newtonian fluids. Additionally: given the heavy cultural significance ascribed to poutine by this “paper”, would it follow that the import of poutine in US places like New York under the name “disco fries” constitutes an egregious form of cultural appropriation and erasure? I just want to enjoy my fries, man.

bungie4 8y ago

Living in Northern Ontario, I'm no stranger to Poutine. All sorts of places are popping up selling 'flavoured' poutines. Nothing beats the original. In fact, the best poutine is found at chip stands with suspect food handling standards. Not in fast food places nor even restaurants. My personal favourite comes from the bush town of River Valley Ont. My god I could go for one now and it's only 8:30am. Hey, were all gonna die sometime!

Waterluvian 8y ago

I mentioned this in another thread. I'm a bit concerned about the possible effect of declaring "cultural appropriation" on poutine and other things. In my city, and possibly Ontario, and maybe all of Canada, Shawarma Poutine has become a big hit. It's poutine with Shawarma chicken shaved onto it. It's glorious. All the shops I've been to are run and owned by either Iranians or other middle Eastern immigrants. So to me it's a beautiful success story of immigration in Canada. These individuals are refining a brand new dish by combining middle Eastern and Quebecois food. If we call it cultural appropriation and wag our finger at it, we possibly lose out on new things like shawarma poutine. What's the fear? That others will embrace and adopt your culture? I feel less strongly about this part. I'm probably wrong. But I wonder if it has to do with the feeling I felt strongly as a kid. I played Bungie games like Marathon and Pathways before Halo came out. And then Halo arrived and a whole new breed of gamers appeared and made it their thing. They spoke like experts at the lunchroom table. But they didn't grok Bungie and didn't know the origins like I did. And it made me so inexplicably frustrated at them. They were stealing my thing. Edit: a lot of good responses that have opened my eyes to additional perspectives. If you've gone this far, be sure to read the responses, too!

hunter2_ 8y ago
I think you're right and it's about the context in which the newcomer acts. Immigrants making poutine (with their own ideas blended in) is not appropriation because it's happening in QC (or surrounding areas), but if they did the reverse -- not immigrating but staying put while making Schwarma Poutine in their homeland while flying Canadian flags -- appropriation (on two levels), not unlike festival goers wearing Native garb as a classic example.
levesque 8y ago
Even though probably everyone in your town eats sushi, a variant that is most likely wildly different from what the Japanese call sushi, people don't go around calling it a Canadian or American dish. Same goes here, I'd say. At its basis poutine was a Quebecois dish, and other people didn't want any part of it. Now it's popular and all of a sudden it's a Canadian staple? The setting is probably at the root of the issue. The article touched on the question of Quebec being recognized as a Nation within Canada. I guess if you don't acknowledge that part, no need to discuss it further, because Quebec is in Canada, therefore making it a Canadian dish. Without going in the question of independence, I have no problem admitting that Scotland has a different culture than the UK, or Catalonia from Spain, etc. I don't see a difference here with Quebec. The problem with cultural appropriation is not that the thing is embraced by other cultures, the problem is the incorrect labeling. This reminds me of Borscht, that delicious eastern European beet soup. Is it Russian? Ukrainian? Polish? Ask any one of those nationalities and they will tell you they invented it.
- lostconfused 8y ago
  I don't think I've ever encountered Russians claiming they invented borscth. It's more of a case of the west attributing most Eastern European culture to Russia. The other Easter European cultures obviously put some efforts to maintaining their identity in opposition to Russian dominance in the region.
  - levesque 8y ago
    Fair enough, probably a bad example.

cal5k 8y ago

The title is fun, but this is a terrible paper. Yes, Canadians poke fun at Québécois, and sometimes poutine is used (but rarely these days given its popularity). But a big part of Canadian culture is being “in on the joke”. We tend to love it when we’re satirized in the media, particularly American media. I think this appreciation for jokes made at our expense is partly responsible for our high volume of comedian exports. So we make fun of BC folk, they make fun of Torontonians; Quebecois make fun of Acadiens; we all make fun of PEI. It’s not done from malice, just good-natured ribbing about our differences. This paper is a great example of research-free critical theory.

DKnoll 8y ago
>We tend to love it when we’re satirized in the media, particularly American media. I don't at all. I find the same overplayed Canadian jokes from Americans extremely tiring and patronising. Don't use 'we' to refer to over 35m people.
- cal5k 8y ago
  I think it’s possible to broadly generalize about a culture without needing to caveat that yes, obviously some people are different.
  - DKnoll 8y ago
    Just saying, speak for yourself, I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like to be steriotyped by ignorant people for laughs based on my nationality. As for the regional steriotypes about different provinces being 'fun' or 'lighthearted,' that is not always the case and many of them are rooted in historical military or political conflicts.
jperras 8y ago
> It’s not done from malice, just good-natured ribbing about our differences. I'm Québécois. My family has been Québécois for hundreds of years. My first language was French but I spoke English from a very young age, and went to a mixture of English and French schools. I watch Québécois movies and tv shows, listen to Québécois music and radio, and cook traditional Québécois food for myself and friends every chance I get. I can't vouch for any of the other Canadian subcultures you've named, but I can assure you that I never enjoyed the taunting, the name calling, the literal physical violence (I got beat up many times as kid because I was "one of those fucking French frogs"), and not to mention the inevitable eye rolling and pointed questions about why my particular cultural heritage was even allowed to exist in Canada. Some people view us as some sort of blight that needs to be eradicated because we don't fit the mould of what a "Canadian" is. I've had people tell me to my face that they "can't wait for the French to just die off in this country", and then laugh because they think it's a funny joke. I'm not saying everyone is like that, and things seem to have softened in the past few decades, but please don't believe that we enjoy being marginalized.

tracker1 8y ago

Cultural appropriation of foods is completely natural and should absolutely be encouraged... Do we really want southwest/mexican food without herbs based in europe and spices from the east? Or, for that matter, removing tortilla chips, or flour based tortillas. It's absurd to try to stop, and at a net loss to society to do so. It's been happening forever and it's a net good.