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Great to hear that Chris Taylor is working on a new RTS, but I wonder how it'll be received given that the RTS genre has seemingly been eviscerated, particularl

by danso 8y ago

Great to hear that Chris Taylor is working on a new RTS, but I wonder how it'll be received given that the RTS genre has seemingly been eviscerated, particularly by MOBAs. Even Starcraft 2 seems to be a niche title, even overshadowed by its predecessor -- which Blizzard opted to remaster. The only other RTS I've recently paid attention to is also a remaster: AOE2 HD. From my narrow personal perspective, it's easy for me to understand why RTSes aren't popular -- I'm too old to have the time to master them. But I wonder why the genre has stagnated for the rest of the world -- is it because it's too complex? Or because the mechanics of other similar genres, like MOBAs, are inherently superior? With instant-gratification being the default mindset nowadays, the thought of spending 30 minutes building out a base only for it to be wiped out in 2 minutes of action does seem antiquated.

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pmalynin 8y ago
I wouldn’t say the RTS genre has been destroyed per se. We have Stelaris for example and Hearts of Iron 4 some time ago. There is also RimWorld and Wargame. Banished, comes to mind. Oh and of course They Are Billions, great game combining Starcraft and age of empires. Anyway, I think the genre is alive and kicking — mainly driven by smaller developers. It’s a shame that EA killed off C&C but they only have themselves to blame.
- Reedx 8y ago
  Well, most of those fall more under the more general umbrella of "strategy". Stellaris is 4x, Rimworld is a management sim, Banished is a city builder. RTS is stuff like Starcraft/Warcraft, Age of Empires, C&C, Company of Heroes, Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander. I haven't played They Are Billions yet, but yeah, that looks like an RTS or really close to it. So maybe it's not quite dead, but hanging on by a thread! There's also Offworld Trading Company from a couple years ago which is RTS minus combat.
- thrower123 8y ago
  Paradox grand strategy games are real-time, but it's bending the definitions of the genre to a ridiculous, meaningless level to consider them RTS games.
  - pmalynin 8y ago
    My point more generally was that hard core strategy games are still coming out and are beloved
- manfredo 8y ago
  Rimworld isn't an RTS so much as a sandbox game in the same vein as Dwarf fortress. Wargame has a ridiculously niche player base. Like, 3k players on most days.
afterburner 8y ago
Starcraft is no fun between even somewhat unequal opponents. At least MOBAs give you a little bit of fun first before getting decimated, and proceed at a somewhat relaxed pace compared to the manically frenzied rush-fests that RTSs seem to be.
dfxm12 8y ago
In the last big DOTA tournament, the top prize was over $11MM. The last StarCraft world tournament's entire prize pool was $700k. I don't know why there's such a disparity in the payouts. Maybe games like DOTA are more spectator friendly and thus can raise more money for ads? Or maybe it's because the top DOTA players are streamers are more diverse, mostly coming from different countries in Europe, but also NA and Asia, while the top StarCraft players tend to be almost exclusively Korean.
- taurath 8y ago
  MOBAs are a bit more dynamic I find that most RTSs, and simple for audiences to understand - starcraft in particular ended up playing much more like chess, with a fairly established early/midgame going towards an endgame, assuming no major mistakes were made. MOBAs just have a lot more variables not only in the team composition but also communication and teamplay - combined they make for a lot more dynamic strategies (closer to basketball than chess).
- baddox 8y ago
  I think it’s more about being player-friendly than being spectator-friendly. Starcraft is just a far more difficult game to play at even a modest level of competence than a MOBA or even an FPS, and it seems to be very difficult to establish a big esports following without a big player community.

by danso 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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pmalynin 8y ago

I wouldn’t say the RTS genre has been destroyed per se. We have Stelaris for example and Hearts of Iron 4 some time ago. There is also RimWorld and Wargame. Banished, comes to mind. Oh and of course They Are Billions, great game combining Starcraft and age of empires. Anyway, I think the genre is alive and kicking — mainly driven by smaller developers. It’s a shame that EA killed off C&C but they only have themselves to blame.

Reedx 8y ago
Well, most of those fall more under the more general umbrella of "strategy". Stellaris is 4x, Rimworld is a management sim, Banished is a city builder. RTS is stuff like Starcraft/Warcraft, Age of Empires, C&C, Company of Heroes, Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander. I haven't played They Are Billions yet, but yeah, that looks like an RTS or really close to it. So maybe it's not quite dead, but hanging on by a thread! There's also Offworld Trading Company from a couple years ago which is RTS minus combat.
thrower123 8y ago
Paradox grand strategy games are real-time, but it's bending the definitions of the genre to a ridiculous, meaningless level to consider them RTS games.
- pmalynin 8y ago
  My point more generally was that hard core strategy games are still coming out and are beloved
manfredo 8y ago
Rimworld isn't an RTS so much as a sandbox game in the same vein as Dwarf fortress. Wargame has a ridiculously niche player base. Like, 3k players on most days.

afterburner 8y ago

Starcraft is no fun between even somewhat unequal opponents. At least MOBAs give you a little bit of fun first before getting decimated, and proceed at a somewhat relaxed pace compared to the manically frenzied rush-fests that RTSs seem to be.

dfxm12 8y ago

In the last big DOTA tournament, the top prize was over $11MM. The last StarCraft world tournament's entire prize pool was $700k. I don't know why there's such a disparity in the payouts. Maybe games like DOTA are more spectator friendly and thus can raise more money for ads? Or maybe it's because the top DOTA players are streamers are more diverse, mostly coming from different countries in Europe, but also NA and Asia, while the top StarCraft players tend to be almost exclusively Korean.

taurath 8y ago
MOBAs are a bit more dynamic I find that most RTSs, and simple for audiences to understand - starcraft in particular ended up playing much more like chess, with a fairly established early/midgame going towards an endgame, assuming no major mistakes were made. MOBAs just have a lot more variables not only in the team composition but also communication and teamplay - combined they make for a lot more dynamic strategies (closer to basketball than chess).
baddox 8y ago
I think it’s more about being player-friendly than being spectator-friendly. Starcraft is just a far more difficult game to play at even a modest level of competence than a MOBA or even an FPS, and it seems to be very difficult to establish a big esports following without a big player community.