4 ms·

>once I've spent a few hours configuring everything This is what stops noobs from using it.

by apexalpha 8y ago

izacus 8y ago
Configuring my Mac to my liking also takes a few hours and it doesn't seem to stop noobs from using it.
- addicted 8y ago
  The difference is that “noobs” can be useful with their Mac without any configuration. That’s harder with Linux, although as the author of this article points out, this isn’t true anymore, especially with Ubuntu.
Multicomp 8y ago
The article author touched on this as well. The single biggest hurdle that comes up when my sphere of influence talk about installing a linux distro is the amount of manual fussing and finicky driver work you "have to do". Whether that is the reality in today's distros compared to people trying distros out in years past (hello XUbuntu 7!) is to the side. Perception is reality, and no amount of my arguing has been able to change people's minds unless they are already a tinkerer or an anti-Microsoftie. A sibling comment talks about using xorg vs Wayland and the difference it makes in making the mouse work well or not. That is a perfect example of what holds Linux back from it's (hopefully soon) year of the Linux desktop. If a given Linux distro would target a consistent set of apps that are familiar to users/"noobs" out of the box (the list the author used is pretty representative) as well as some more visible attempts at automatic driver selection based on known hardware IDs, it would dramatically lower that friction and thus help combat the possibly unfair perception Linux currently runs into in the mind of plain users. I will say, Microsoft has been bungling things so epically with their windows update boondoggles that I'm starting to encounter users who seem more open to that Linux thing, at least if you pitched it with a distro that tried to have Windows-like look and feel, like the ZorrinOs/Lindows/KDEs of the world.
- simion314 8y ago
  Problem is happening with laptops, I use only desktops and the only driver config I do is as a gamer, I install latest drivers and maybe configure it, similar thing a Windows gamer will do.
simion314 8y ago
Because noobs can install Windows in 5 minutes? First you need the drivers, how will you get them if you don't have a CD ROM and ethernet is not working? Sometimes drivers suck, sometimes Realtek sound drivers mess up the Realtk network cards, will your noobs know what happened? Then you have to install apps like VLC, good luck ending up on the official site and not some random download site Other issue I personally have with windows as a disabled person is Windows did not allowed me to set custom keyboard shortcuts for the Magnifier app. In the worst case with an open source app I could edit the code and fix it but KDE allows me to set the shortcuts as I need
- jandrese 8y ago
  The difference is that you bought the laptop with Windows already installed, so the manufacturer went through all of those headaches for you.
  - simion314 8y ago
    It is true not all laptops work with Linux. But a noob can't reinstall windows and resetup his apps in 15 minutes either. A fair comparison is to give a setup Linux and a setup Windows and have them install the apps they need like browser, video player, printer etc. If you are a developer(in general not Windows apps only) you have a much better experience installing compilers,servers on Linux.
    - jandrese 8y ago
      Noobs don't reinstall windows. They bring it to BestBuy to have the nerd do it for them for $100.
      - simion314 8y ago
        Noobs don't reinstall Linux either, you bring it to your tech friend or any repair shop.
izolate 8y ago
Whoever first brings to market a laptop with Linux that "just works" 100% from the moment you press the on button, is poised to make a lot of money. That day will probably never arrive, but it's fun to think about.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I doubt it. There are a lot more problems with Linux as a desktop than having iffy hardware support for laptops.
- ArrayList 8y ago
  Doesn't System76 do that?
- mastax 8y ago
  I don't think there's ever been a computer that meets that specification. Maybe the Apollo flight computer?
- aquabeagle 8y ago
  The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition ships with Ubuntu and should "just work" 100% https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9370-laptop/cax13w10p2c606ubuntu https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
  - CaptSpify 8y ago
    *should My experience is that it does not.
- rchaud 8y ago
  It sounds nice in theory, but let's face it, a Linux laptop will not make money. In fact, because it is targeting such a narrow, "know-it-all" segment of the market, it will be nitpicked to death. - "Trackpad on Macbook Pro is better" - "LED 1080p screen. Why not IPS 2k screen?" - "Wanted one but the base config is awful and I'm not paying $____ for 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD" - "Why aren't they offering next business day support like Dell/HP/etc?"

>once I've spent a few hours configuring everything This is what stops noobs from using it.

izacus 8y ago

Configuring my Mac to my liking also takes a few hours and it doesn't seem to stop noobs from using it.

addicted 8y ago
The difference is that “noobs” can be useful with their Mac without any configuration. That’s harder with Linux, although as the author of this article points out, this isn’t true anymore, especially with Ubuntu.

Multicomp 8y ago

The article author touched on this as well. The single biggest hurdle that comes up when my sphere of influence talk about installing a linux distro is the amount of manual fussing and finicky driver work you "have to do". Whether that is the reality in today's distros compared to people trying distros out in years past (hello XUbuntu 7!) is to the side. Perception is reality, and no amount of my arguing has been able to change people's minds unless they are already a tinkerer or an anti-Microsoftie. A sibling comment talks about using xorg vs Wayland and the difference it makes in making the mouse work well or not. That is a perfect example of what holds Linux back from it's (hopefully soon) year of the Linux desktop. If a given Linux distro would target a consistent set of apps that are familiar to users/"noobs" out of the box (the list the author used is pretty representative) as well as some more visible attempts at automatic driver selection based on known hardware IDs, it would dramatically lower that friction and thus help combat the possibly unfair perception Linux currently runs into in the mind of plain users. I will say, Microsoft has been bungling things so epically with their windows update boondoggles that I'm starting to encounter users who seem more open to that Linux thing, at least if you pitched it with a distro that tried to have Windows-like look and feel, like the ZorrinOs/Lindows/KDEs of the world.

simion314 8y ago
Problem is happening with laptops, I use only desktops and the only driver config I do is as a gamer, I install latest drivers and maybe configure it, similar thing a Windows gamer will do.

simion314 8y ago

Because noobs can install Windows in 5 minutes? First you need the drivers, how will you get them if you don't have a CD ROM and ethernet is not working? Sometimes drivers suck, sometimes Realtek sound drivers mess up the Realtk network cards, will your noobs know what happened? Then you have to install apps like VLC, good luck ending up on the official site and not some random download site Other issue I personally have with windows as a disabled person is Windows did not allowed me to set custom keyboard shortcuts for the Magnifier app. In the worst case with an open source app I could edit the code and fix it but KDE allows me to set the shortcuts as I need

jandrese 8y ago
The difference is that you bought the laptop with Windows already installed, so the manufacturer went through all of those headaches for you.
- simion314 8y ago
  It is true not all laptops work with Linux. But a noob can't reinstall windows and resetup his apps in 15 minutes either. A fair comparison is to give a setup Linux and a setup Windows and have them install the apps they need like browser, video player, printer etc. If you are a developer(in general not Windows apps only) you have a much better experience installing compilers,servers on Linux.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Noobs don't reinstall windows. They bring it to BestBuy to have the nerd do it for them for $100.
    - simion314 8y ago
      Noobs don't reinstall Linux either, you bring it to your tech friend or any repair shop.

izolate 8y ago

Whoever first brings to market a laptop with Linux that "just works" 100% from the moment you press the on button, is poised to make a lot of money. That day will probably never arrive, but it's fun to think about.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I doubt it. There are a lot more problems with Linux as a desktop than having iffy hardware support for laptops.
ArrayList 8y ago
Doesn't System76 do that?
mastax 8y ago
I don't think there's ever been a computer that meets that specification. Maybe the Apollo flight computer?
aquabeagle 8y ago
The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition ships with Ubuntu and should "just work" 100% https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9370-laptop/cax13w10p2c606ubuntu https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
- CaptSpify 8y ago
  *should My experience is that it does not.
rchaud 8y ago
It sounds nice in theory, but let's face it, a Linux laptop will not make money. In fact, because it is targeting such a narrow, "know-it-all" segment of the market, it will be nitpicked to death. - "Trackpad on Macbook Pro is better" - "LED 1080p screen. Why not IPS 2k screen?" - "Wanted one but the base config is awful and I'm not paying $____ for 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD" - "Why aren't they offering next business day support like Dell/HP/etc?"