5 ms·

The fact that people are abusing tools for ad-blocking to achieve political goals is a major breach of trust. This is the main issue. For the record, political

by ahje 8y ago

The fact that people are abusing tools for ad-blocking to achieve political goals is a major breach of trust. This is the main issue. For the record, political strikes happen in the other Nordic countries as well. According to a quick search on the Internet, the only Nordic citizens who are _not_ allowed to partake in a political strike are public servants in Sweden.

sharpneli 8y ago
Yes I agree that the adblock list is a major breach of trust and should not have been done. I just wanted to give especially Americans some view on how different things may be. According to my search as an example in Denmark they're only allowed if "Short and for reasonable cause" and so forth and sweden was not listed at all, but norway was. This is likely a mix of case law and actual written law. https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf
- ahje 8y ago
  Yeah, there's a lot of single cases with little actual law on the subject. Finland is probably one of the few places where you can't fire an employee for participating in a poltical strike. The ability to fire someone for going on strike doesn't make the strike illegal though.
  - sharpneli 8y ago
    Amusingly not even illegal strike allows one to fire someone. In Finland even illegal strike gives you protection from retribution and the damages are capped at around 24000€ total (not per employee, but total sum for the strike and this is paid by union). So even if Finland would make political strikes illegal it would not change much.
gear54rus 8y ago
what even crossed the mind of the guy, I am still laughing at this. with a straight face, he opened a file called 'ad-blockin-list' and wrote words 'political stance' in them. so silly its unbelievable
Jolter 8y ago
Correction on that: any employee in Sweden is forbidden from striking if they are currently bound by a collective bargaining agreement. This means strikes are only legally recognized as strikes in the period between the expiry of an agreement, and the signing of the next one. This is generally every three years. In other words, political strikes are effectively banned i Sweden. I'm not aware of any exception to this rule for public servants but I could be wrong.
- Jolter 8y ago
  Partially correcting myself here: The Nordic countries all have certain restrictions on striking for some groups of public servants. The groups vary and the restrictions do, too. If I read my book correctly, Sweden forbids key officials (those who have certain positions of authority) from participating in solidarity strikes (strikes in support of others), unless those others are also public servants. https://books.google.se/books?id=IYx2GZdMA7AC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=offentligt+anst%C3%A4llda+tj%C3%A4nstem%C3%A4n+inskr%C3%A4nkt+strejkr%C3%A4tt&source=bl&ots=pMLfsP48x7&sig=8BiJ-GIabkIl4YAW0nJh4hMGghs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSwqqHu6HeAhWIpIsKHegSCx0Q6AEwAnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=offentligt%20anst%C3%A4llda%20tj%C3%A4nstem%C3%A4n%20inskr%C3%A4nkt%20strejkr%C3%A4tt&f=false https://books.google.se/books?id=IYx2GZdMA7AC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA... The purpose of the law is to prevent certain tempting corrupt practices. As far as I know, this law has never been used, but I feel like it is sensible. Note: 99% of the time, like all Swedish workers, those officials have a binding collective bargaining agreement, so are forbidden from striking anyway. (I e if they go on strike, they may be legally fired.)
- ahje 8y ago
  Fair enough. I'll stick to talking about our own laws instead of the Swedish ones. :)
- yeahforsureman 8y ago
  > In other words, political strikes are effectively banned i Sweden. Not exactly true. What you're talking about is the industrial peace obligation inherent in each collective agreement. But this obligation is not applied where the strike has nothing to do with the collective agreement, i.e., where the objective of the industrial action is not covered by the collective agreement. This is precisely the case with political strikes. In this respect, the system is very similar to that in Finland. However, AFAIK, there are other limitations to purely political strikes, see the source below. At least this source [1] states that 'purely political strikes are, in most countries, at least in theory, prohibited, exceptions being Denmark (if short and for “reasonable cause”), Finland, Ireland, Italy and Norway.' Looking more carefully at that source you will find, however, that there is, in practice, a lot of room for strikes of varying political nature in many more EU states. [1] https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf

by ahje 8y ago

sharpneli 8y ago

Yes I agree that the adblock list is a major breach of trust and should not have been done. I just wanted to give especially Americans some view on how different things may be. According to my search as an example in Denmark they're only allowed if "Short and for reasonable cause" and so forth and sweden was not listed at all, but norway was. This is likely a mix of case law and actual written law. https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf

ahje 8y ago
Yeah, there's a lot of single cases with little actual law on the subject. Finland is probably one of the few places where you can't fire an employee for participating in a poltical strike. The ability to fire someone for going on strike doesn't make the strike illegal though.
- sharpneli 8y ago
  Amusingly not even illegal strike allows one to fire someone. In Finland even illegal strike gives you protection from retribution and the damages are capped at around 24000€ total (not per employee, but total sum for the strike and this is paid by union). So even if Finland would make political strikes illegal it would not change much.

gear54rus 8y ago

what even crossed the mind of the guy, I am still laughing at this. with a straight face, he opened a file called 'ad-blockin-list' and wrote words 'political stance' in them. so silly its unbelievable

Jolter 8y ago

Correction on that: any employee in Sweden is forbidden from striking if they are currently bound by a collective bargaining agreement. This means strikes are only legally recognized as strikes in the period between the expiry of an agreement, and the signing of the next one. This is generally every three years. In other words, political strikes are effectively banned i Sweden. I'm not aware of any exception to this rule for public servants but I could be wrong.

Jolter 8y ago
Partially correcting myself here: The Nordic countries all have certain restrictions on striking for some groups of public servants. The groups vary and the restrictions do, too. If I read my book correctly, Sweden forbids key officials (those who have certain positions of authority) from participating in solidarity strikes (strikes in support of others), unless those others are also public servants. https://books.google.se/books?id=IYx2GZdMA7AC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=offentligt+anst%C3%A4llda+tj%C3%A4nstem%C3%A4n+inskr%C3%A4nkt+strejkr%C3%A4tt&source=bl&ots=pMLfsP48x7&sig=8BiJ-GIabkIl4YAW0nJh4hMGghs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSwqqHu6HeAhWIpIsKHegSCx0Q6AEwAnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=offentligt%20anst%C3%A4llda%20tj%C3%A4nstem%C3%A4n%20inskr%C3%A4nkt%20strejkr%C3%A4tt&f=false https://books.google.se/books?id=IYx2GZdMA7AC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA... The purpose of the law is to prevent certain tempting corrupt practices. As far as I know, this law has never been used, but I feel like it is sensible. Note: 99% of the time, like all Swedish workers, those officials have a binding collective bargaining agreement, so are forbidden from striking anyway. (I e if they go on strike, they may be legally fired.)
ahje 8y ago
Fair enough. I'll stick to talking about our own laws instead of the Swedish ones. :)
yeahforsureman 8y ago
> In other words, political strikes are effectively banned i Sweden. Not exactly true. What you're talking about is the industrial peace obligation inherent in each collective agreement. But this obligation is not applied where the strike has nothing to do with the collective agreement, i.e., where the objective of the industrial action is not covered by the collective agreement. This is precisely the case with political strikes. In this respect, the system is very similar to that in Finland. However, AFAIK, there are other limitations to purely political strikes, see the source below. At least this source [1] states that 'purely political strikes are, in most countries, at least in theory, prohibited, exceptions being Denmark (if short and for “reasonable cause”), Finland, Ireland, Italy and Norway.' Looking more carefully at that source you will find, however, that there is, in practice, a lot of room for strikes of varying political nature in many more EU states. [1] https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf https://www.asi.is/media/7581/Strike_rules_in_the_EU27.pdf