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> One small mistake, and it could kill his wife, himself, or someone else on the road. I believe you have just described driving in general.

by jdboyd 8y ago

vntok 8y ago
NO it's way worse than driving in general, because once the car has been modified, its behaviour on the road and that of the guy in the driver seat are completely decorrelated. Ergo, the guy can be much more alert than most people on the road and STILL crash into others without any sort of warning, simply due to a software bug. For various reasons, in regular cars, this should not happen.
- extrapickles 8y ago
  If they keep their hands on the wheel and the self driving actuators can’t overpower standard human strength, I would be fine with it on the road near me. It also looks like his workmanship was reasonable so he probably did everything correctly.
  - vntok 8y ago
    > This required transplanting the controls from a salvage steering wheel, which had a blown airbag, into my wife’s steering wheel. Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Then again, at least it only endangers his presumably consenting wife and not third party drivers/pedestrians on the road.
    - LoSboccacc 8y ago
      Well except the one it will crash into.
    - mschuster91 8y ago
      > Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Why not? The one part that matters for safety in a wheel is not delicate at all: it's the connection to the axle. Even if all power is suddenly dead, the vehicle can still be manually controlled. As for the airbag, I guess (and hope) that the author did replace it.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      >Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Well the existence of the entire used car parts industry seems to indicate otherwise. For some parts, especially out of production control modules over various kinds, used is the only option. Mechanical failure is a drop in the bucket in terms of road safety. Mechanical failure as a result of substandard parts (as opposed to deferred maintenance/repair) is such a small fraction of that drop I've never heard of anyone even trying to measure it specifically.
  - tjoff 8y ago
    If... The whole premise of tesla lane guidance is to allow for the driver to relax. This allows for the driver to not pay attention which in turns has caused several deaths. That is completely inevitable. Humans are just not capable of behaving rationally in such a system. These modifications increase that risk. These modifications do not increase the attentiveness of the driver. Step 3 ... Step 4: profit?
  - ux-app 8y ago
    > "probably" ...
- mikeash 8y ago
  Really, “completely decorrelated”? Like, the driver will steer left, and the result will be for the car to open the rear window and brake? Come on.
  - vntok 8y ago
    Who knows without QA? Jokes aside, yes my point was that the driver could be the best in the entire world, if the software has a critical bug the car could crash on its own volition. That just doesn't happen with regular cars. Even critical bugs like the "enforced uncontrolled acceleration while on the highway" scandal in the years 2005-2010s were eventually proven to be self-prophecy cases of human error meets FUD.

> One small mistake, and it could kill his wife, himself, or someone else on the road. I believe you have just described driving in general.

by jdboyd 8y ago

> One small mistake, and it could kill his wife, himself, or someone else on the road. I believe you have just described driving in general.

vntok 8y ago

NO it's way worse than driving in general, because once the car has been modified, its behaviour on the road and that of the guy in the driver seat are completely decorrelated. Ergo, the guy can be much more alert than most people on the road and STILL crash into others without any sort of warning, simply due to a software bug. For various reasons, in regular cars, this should not happen.

extrapickles 8y ago
If they keep their hands on the wheel and the self driving actuators can’t overpower standard human strength, I would be fine with it on the road near me. It also looks like his workmanship was reasonable so he probably did everything correctly.
- vntok 8y ago
  > This required transplanting the controls from a salvage steering wheel, which had a blown airbag, into my wife’s steering wheel. Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Then again, at least it only endangers his presumably consenting wife and not third party drivers/pedestrians on the road.
  - LoSboccacc 8y ago
    Well except the one it will crash into.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Why not? The one part that matters for safety in a wheel is not delicate at all: it's the connection to the axle. Even if all power is suddenly dead, the vehicle can still be manually controlled. As for the airbag, I guess (and hope) that the author did replace it.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >Reusing delicate parts from a salvage wheel that had a blown airbag does not seem particularly safe to me. Well the existence of the entire used car parts industry seems to indicate otherwise. For some parts, especially out of production control modules over various kinds, used is the only option. Mechanical failure is a drop in the bucket in terms of road safety. Mechanical failure as a result of substandard parts (as opposed to deferred maintenance/repair) is such a small fraction of that drop I've never heard of anyone even trying to measure it specifically.
- tjoff 8y ago
  If... The whole premise of tesla lane guidance is to allow for the driver to relax. This allows for the driver to not pay attention which in turns has caused several deaths. That is completely inevitable. Humans are just not capable of behaving rationally in such a system. These modifications increase that risk. These modifications do not increase the attentiveness of the driver. Step 3 ... Step 4: profit?
- ux-app 8y ago
  > "probably" ...
mikeash 8y ago
Really, “completely decorrelated”? Like, the driver will steer left, and the result will be for the car to open the rear window and brake? Come on.
- vntok 8y ago
  Who knows without QA? Jokes aside, yes my point was that the driver could be the best in the entire world, if the software has a critical bug the car could crash on its own volition. That just doesn't happen with regular cars. Even critical bugs like the "enforced uncontrolled acceleration while on the highway" scandal in the years 2005-2010s were eventually proven to be self-prophecy cases of human error meets FUD.