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https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33636796/chrome-safari-not-filling-100-height-of-flex-parent https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33636796/chrome-safari-n...

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33636796/chrome-safari-not-filling-100-height-of-flex-parent https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33636796/chrome-safari-n... I'm referring to this. Got bitten by it recently. > That wasn't the reason for stylesheets. It was for ease of changes. For example, to change the color of the headings on all of your HTML pages, you would change just the stylesheet. This was when each web page was a static HTML file. Few websites used programming languages to render pages. So the benefit today is less. Interesting, I didn't know that. Still, CSS doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Here's a bunch of global state, some of which is hidden in gigantic minified files, now edit it!

irrational 8y ago
>Here's a bunch of global state, some of which is hidden in gigantic minified files, now edit it! Well, there's your problem. I'd recommend reading about things like atomic css, BEM, OMACSS, etc.
- _hardwaregeek 8y ago
  That's why I use CSS in JS :D. But we're just putting abstractions/stopgaps over a fundamentally flawed design. Not to mention, since everybody uses a different standard for isolation, CSS in JS is not compatible with BEM is not compatible with SASS, etc.
  - ZenPsycho 8y ago
    CSS was originally designed with the idea that you would have one css file for your whole site, and it would be maybe 300 lines max. We've obviously gone well off the rails. Selector specificity was supposed to be the scoping mechanism. And it works great in the original envisaged usescase: a single person making a single website. it just doesn't scale to large teams, and ancient software projects, with complicated layouts.
    - laumars 8y ago
      It never worked well in the original envisaged usecase. CSS 1 didn’t work properly with tables which meant I used to have to inline style attributes for tables as well as set a CAS file. It’s always been garbage for centering things, in the early days that meant using the <center> tag. Then you have all the different browser extensions (o-, mo-, etc) the inconsistent preferences for font-face, etc. CSS was a great idea but it’s always been a garbage execution of that with no single browser following the spec correctly for years then each browser going off and adding their own crap when the spec ended up languishing (thank you W3C for sleeping while the web leapfrogged into the future). I’m not a fan of HTML (I think that was good for it’s time but could use deprecation) nor JavaScript (but I’ll concede this is personal preference - however wouldn’t it be nice to have browsers run byte code so you could have a choice of languages rather than having compile everything down to JavaScript?) but CSS is easily the worst of a bad bunch in my personal opinion. Frankly I don’t even get why people are defending it. Any programming tool that reduces the developer down to hours of trial and error just to do basic things is clearly a misstep. Sure, expert front end developers with years of experience and using bloated frameworks cope fine; but why have we allowed ourselves to get into this kind of mess in the first place? I would honestly welcome a ground up complete reimplementation of the web if browser vendors all decided to work together on one.
      - dylan604 8y ago
        >I would honestly welcome a ground up complete reimplementation of the web if browser vendors all decided to work together on one. Was that the sound of a pig flying by, or the sound of hell freezing over? Any time specs can be interpreted, there will always be these differences in browsers. Maybe we could not call them specs, and just call them suggestions?
        laumars 8y ago
        Ostensibly I do agree with you however that is the reason I phrased it "browser vendors working together" rather than "a new spec being written". However, as you said, the chances of that happening are remote. Even putting personal agendas aside (eg Google wanting to control content via AMP), the web in it's current form is "good enough" that there's no real drive to reinvent the wheel for something with such deep market penetration already.
adrianN 8y ago
Back when CSS was useful for changing the color of all your headlines without changing all your HTML, it wasn't delivered in giant minified files, it was a couple dozen lines written by hand.
gsnedders 8y ago
The spec has changed on multiple occasions around whether flex items are definite sized or not, which is part of what of what's caused the lack of interop here. The problem here is specifically having a percentage sized child of a flex item (and Chrome and Safari don't match the current spec, as the flex item is indefinite sized in too many cases; Firefox doesn't either, as the flex item is definite sized in too many cases!); to make the flex item definite sized everywhere you can typically just add height: 0.

irrational 8y ago

>Here's a bunch of global state, some of which is hidden in gigantic minified files, now edit it! Well, there's your problem. I'd recommend reading about things like atomic css, BEM, OMACSS, etc.

_hardwaregeek 8y ago
That's why I use CSS in JS :D. But we're just putting abstractions/stopgaps over a fundamentally flawed design. Not to mention, since everybody uses a different standard for isolation, CSS in JS is not compatible with BEM is not compatible with SASS, etc.
- ZenPsycho 8y ago
  CSS was originally designed with the idea that you would have one css file for your whole site, and it would be maybe 300 lines max. We've obviously gone well off the rails. Selector specificity was supposed to be the scoping mechanism. And it works great in the original envisaged usescase: a single person making a single website. it just doesn't scale to large teams, and ancient software projects, with complicated layouts.
  - laumars 8y ago
    It never worked well in the original envisaged usecase. CSS 1 didn’t work properly with tables which meant I used to have to inline style attributes for tables as well as set a CAS file. It’s always been garbage for centering things, in the early days that meant using the <center> tag. Then you have all the different browser extensions (o-, mo-, etc) the inconsistent preferences for font-face, etc. CSS was a great idea but it’s always been a garbage execution of that with no single browser following the spec correctly for years then each browser going off and adding their own crap when the spec ended up languishing (thank you W3C for sleeping while the web leapfrogged into the future). I’m not a fan of HTML (I think that was good for it’s time but could use deprecation) nor JavaScript (but I’ll concede this is personal preference - however wouldn’t it be nice to have browsers run byte code so you could have a choice of languages rather than having compile everything down to JavaScript?) but CSS is easily the worst of a bad bunch in my personal opinion. Frankly I don’t even get why people are defending it. Any programming tool that reduces the developer down to hours of trial and error just to do basic things is clearly a misstep. Sure, expert front end developers with years of experience and using bloated frameworks cope fine; but why have we allowed ourselves to get into this kind of mess in the first place? I would honestly welcome a ground up complete reimplementation of the web if browser vendors all decided to work together on one.
    - dylan604 8y ago
      >I would honestly welcome a ground up complete reimplementation of the web if browser vendors all decided to work together on one. Was that the sound of a pig flying by, or the sound of hell freezing over? Any time specs can be interpreted, there will always be these differences in browsers. Maybe we could not call them specs, and just call them suggestions?
      - laumars 8y ago
        Ostensibly I do agree with you however that is the reason I phrased it "browser vendors working together" rather than "a new spec being written". However, as you said, the chances of that happening are remote. Even putting personal agendas aside (eg Google wanting to control content via AMP), the web in it's current form is "good enough" that there's no real drive to reinvent the wheel for something with such deep market penetration already.

adrianN 8y ago

Back when CSS was useful for changing the color of all your headlines without changing all your HTML, it wasn't delivered in giant minified files, it was a couple dozen lines written by hand.

gsnedders 8y ago

The spec has changed on multiple occasions around whether flex items are definite sized or not, which is part of what of what's caused the lack of interop here. The problem here is specifically having a percentage sized child of a flex item (and Chrome and Safari don't match the current spec, as the flex item is indefinite sized in too many cases; Firefox doesn't either, as the flex item is definite sized in too many cases!); to make the flex item definite sized everywhere you can typically just add height: 0.