4 ms·

> There were a lot more cubes in the olden days and people hated those as well. Please, don't forget that historical knowledge. People hated cubes in contrast

> There were a lot more cubes in the olden days and people hated those as well. Please, don't forget that historical knowledge. People hated cubes in contrast to having an office, not in contrast to sharing one huge office without any privacy at all.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Exactly. Cubes and open office are on the same end of the spectrum. Private office is on the other.
- olliej 8y ago
  Cubes are far closer to an office than they are to open plan. Easily.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > Cubes are far closer to an office than they are to open plan. Not if the major disadvantage to open plan is that you're constantly being disturbed by your coworkers because there is no noise isolation.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all. This greatly varies depending on the cubicles. The cubicles at the feynman computing center in fermilab were practically reconfigurable offices with dividers nearly reaching to the ceiling. There are certainly bad cubicles which serve almost no purpose at all. I think what you'll find is it's mostly just a regression over time from private offices to open floor plans. Throughout the middle ground it starts out with office-like cubicles, and towards the open plan end of the time window they have low, thin walls before completely vanishing. In my opinion it's mostly cost-driven. Companies are trying to increase the worker density, especially in areas like silicon valley where ft^2 is at a premium. They're just using "improved collaboration" as a consolation prize without admitting "we simply can't afford to give you all reasonable isolation anymore, and there's so many of you engineers on the market you no longer all have leverage to demand it" Frankly, the talented folks easily get sufficient leverage to work from home or wherever they want anyways. So it's not really all that big of a deal, unless you're stuck in the office because you lack the leverage to escape.
      - pdonis 8y ago
        > There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all. This greatly varies depending on the cubicles. You realize that these two statements contradict each other, right? My experience has been that cubicles offer little or no noise isolation as compared to no cubicles; both alternatives are basically the same (i.e., much worse) in comparison with offices.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        I almost find cubes worse because I can hear stuff around me but I can't see where it's coming from.
        newnewpdro 8y ago
        YMMV is not a contradiction. You're applying a worst case experience with a cubicle to all cubicles. I've had offices that sucked too, it doesn't mean offices are universally bad.
        pdonis 8y ago
        > YMMV is not a contradiction YMMV was your second statement. Your first statement was a flat assertion that is false for many people, including me. > You're applying a worst case experience with a cubicle to all cubicles No, I'm saying that the worst case experience exists and is basically the same as no cubicles. Your statement that I objected to was "There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all", which is simply false for the worst case (which I think is fairly common actually).
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    No way. In cubes you still get plenty of noise. You can't have a quiet private conversation in cubes. You still have people walking behind your back. And you have a gray wall to stare at.
    - olliej 8y ago
      Noise exists in both, but a cubicle does have enough wall to remove peripheral movement while you're trying to focus. But I get your point - you can arrange to have your back to a cubicle wall, but then you get more peripheral movement, or you end up with people walking behind you (which I find much worse)
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  What? Cubicles are somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.

maxxxxx 8y ago

Exactly. Cubes and open office are on the same end of the spectrum. Private office is on the other.

olliej 8y ago
Cubes are far closer to an office than they are to open plan. Easily.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > Cubes are far closer to an office than they are to open plan. Not if the major disadvantage to open plan is that you're constantly being disturbed by your coworkers because there is no noise isolation.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all. This greatly varies depending on the cubicles. The cubicles at the feynman computing center in fermilab were practically reconfigurable offices with dividers nearly reaching to the ceiling. There are certainly bad cubicles which serve almost no purpose at all. I think what you'll find is it's mostly just a regression over time from private offices to open floor plans. Throughout the middle ground it starts out with office-like cubicles, and towards the open plan end of the time window they have low, thin walls before completely vanishing. In my opinion it's mostly cost-driven. Companies are trying to increase the worker density, especially in areas like silicon valley where ft^2 is at a premium. They're just using "improved collaboration" as a consolation prize without admitting "we simply can't afford to give you all reasonable isolation anymore, and there's so many of you engineers on the market you no longer all have leverage to demand it" Frankly, the talented folks easily get sufficient leverage to work from home or wherever they want anyways. So it's not really all that big of a deal, unless you're stuck in the office because you lack the leverage to escape.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      > There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all. This greatly varies depending on the cubicles. You realize that these two statements contradict each other, right? My experience has been that cubicles offer little or no noise isolation as compared to no cubicles; both alternatives are basically the same (i.e., much worse) in comparison with offices.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        I almost find cubes worse because I can hear stuff around me but I can't see where it's coming from.
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        YMMV is not a contradiction. You're applying a worst case experience with a cubicle to all cubicles. I've had offices that sucked too, it doesn't mean offices are universally bad.
        pdonis 8y ago
        > YMMV is not a contradiction YMMV was your second statement. Your first statement was a flat assertion that is false for many people, including me. > You're applying a worst case experience with a cubicle to all cubicles No, I'm saying that the worst case experience exists and is basically the same as no cubicles. Your statement that I objected to was "There's a whole lot more noise isolation than no cubicles at all", which is simply false for the worst case (which I think is fairly common actually).
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  No way. In cubes you still get plenty of noise. You can't have a quiet private conversation in cubes. You still have people walking behind your back. And you have a gray wall to stare at.
  - olliej 8y ago
    Noise exists in both, but a cubicle does have enough wall to remove peripheral movement while you're trying to focus. But I get your point - you can arrange to have your back to a cubicle wall, but then you get more peripheral movement, or you end up with people walking behind you (which I find much worse)
newnewpdro 8y ago
What? Cubicles are somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.