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when i visited china, it was filled with electric cars from multiple manufacturers, and the fit and finish was just as good if not better than tesla. i don't vi

when i visited china, it was filled with electric cars from multiple manufacturers, and the fit and finish was just as good if not better than tesla. i don't view tesla as beyond anyone. when other car manufacturers enter the market, tesla might have a hard time keeping up because other manufacturers know how to build cars and not just an okay car with an electric motor.

ddoolin 8y ago
You should share what those cars are. Also, when are they planning to enter the market at large? Why haven't they done so yet? I don't doubt other major manufacturers will soon give Tesla a run for their money, but mysterious Chinese manufacturers? Certainly.
- Certhas 8y ago
  This isn't some secret. "Global annual sales of EVs surpassed one million for the first time in 2017, and China (where EV sales doubled in 2017) accounted for more than half of those." https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-tesla https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-... This is only natural if you accept that batteries are the key technology here, and China is bringing far more battery tech online than anyone else: http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/ http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium...
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  you are the one uninformed, so maybe you should do a search? there is nothing mysterious about chinese auto manufacturers, in particular the ones making electric vehicles. what do you consider the "market at large"? as someone else mentioned to you, china is the biggest electric vehicle maker and seller in the world. china is also the world's largest auto market. some of the ones that i have personal experience with are nio, geely, saic roewe, and byd. there are many, many more. i have ridden in the last three brands multiple times and saw the nio showroom cars. the three brands i rode in were very nice cars and obviously affordable since most of my rides in them were with didi drivers, china's uber. hacker news, along with many in technology in the u.s., has a huge bias against china. but this is going to catch up with the u.s. in a bad way. china is catching up, and in many cases, exceeding, the u.s. in many industries. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-tesla https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-23/china-s-carmakers-want-to-dominate-world-s-next-era-of-driving https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-23/china-s-c...
  - fossuser 8y ago
    Is this the 50 cent party? When you make claims you should provide examples to support them, it also doesn’t help that your comments come across as hostile. Both of those links talk a lot about Chinese ambition and not a lot about any cars being manufactured.
rconti 8y ago
There are a number of reasons those cars aren't sold in the US, and inability to pass any kind of safety standard is certainly going to be one of them. Of course, the fact that our market is (probably) smaller than theirs with way more red tape (including the aforementioned safety standards) doesn't hurt.
- plaguuuuuu 8y ago
  I mean, there's a risk/reward ratio. if I was in a country with 1bn people, I probably wouldn't risk moving to a market with less people that are suspicious of Chinese manufactured cars at this point either
- mrep 8y ago
  Also, I would bet a lot of money those cars infringe on some patents.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  those are all excuses that, in my opinion, causes one to ignore the progress over there. it's dangerous thinking. do you really think that tesla is as safe as other established car manufacturers? (i am aware of their "ratings", which i find hard to believe.) edit: and you can see my other reply or do a google search to see that china's car manufacturing revolution, including their massive and unparalleled surge into electric vehicles, is something one cannot simply write off. i don't know why people like you hold your opinions in the face of the history of brands like hyundai and kia. kia used to make terrible cars, but is now one of the top auto manufacturers in terms of value, execution, and design. just take a look at the new kia stinger and huge success of the optima model line.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    > i am aware of their "ratings", which i find hard to believe. Is this common among the anti-Tesla crowd? I think you're the first crash rating conspiracy theorist I've come across. If anything I'd assume that the organisations doing the testing would be deeply connected with traditional car manufacturers and that Tesla (as a newcomer) would actually be at a disadvantage. Perhaps you know something we don't?
kllrnohj 8y ago
> and the fit and finish was just as good if not better than tesla Tesla has the worst fit & finish in the industry. It always comes up with every tear down & deep review of a Tesla car. Tesla's powertrain is largely the only thing they are good at, and has so far been the thing other car manufacturers have struggled to match.
- fossuser 8y ago
  Their software with OTA is best in class with nobody even close, their self driving tech is also the best with Cruise coming in second (but including all the other negatives of GM). The seats they’re making in house now are also very comfortable and I like the minimalist interior of the 3, but that’s personal preference. The buying experience was also nice not having to deal with dealers. Their power train and supercharger infrastructure is awesome but it’s not the only thing they’re good at.
- sgillen 8y ago
  The other thing they are very good at is marketing, both to consumers and to potential employees. I think this is largely thanks to the cult of personality around Elon Musk. I don’t really mean that in a bad way either. If they can retain the engineering talent that has been making their cars (which is by no means guaranteed, from the stories I’ve heard of working conditions) then I think they have a good chance of catching up in the areas where they currently lag behind other companies.
- nickik 8y ago
  That's just non-sense. If you look at the teardown you will see that Tesla has great electronics (and cheap), best in class battery packs, a fantastic design, great suspension, software integration, innovative air condition, good charging speed and autopilot that is better then most competition. Really the only thing they are not great at is some part of the interior (and not the important console part at the front) and that they have a somewhat cumbersome heavy body.
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    > Really the only thing they are not great at is some part of the interior (and not the important console part at the front) and that they have a somewhat cumbersome heavy body. Pretty sure you're oblivious to what fit and finish means based off of this comment. You listed a bunch of stuff that's not fit and finish followed by acknowledging that stuff that does contribute to fit and finish is poor. Fit and finish are things like panel gaps, paint job quality, interior quality, etc... And Tesla regularly is pitiful at it.
mh8h 8y ago
There's also the charging network. At least in the North America the Tesla supercharger network is the only viable option if you are doing a road trip.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  i am not knowledgeable about the charging network in either the u.s. or in china. but china has sold more electric cars than anyone, so if i were to wager a guess, i would have to assume the charging network is superior to the one in the u.s.

ddoolin 8y ago

You should share what those cars are. Also, when are they planning to enter the market at large? Why haven't they done so yet? I don't doubt other major manufacturers will soon give Tesla a run for their money, but mysterious Chinese manufacturers? Certainly.

Certhas 8y ago
This isn't some secret. "Global annual sales of EVs surpassed one million for the first time in 2017, and China (where EV sales doubled in 2017) accounted for more than half of those." https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-tesla https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-... This is only natural if you accept that batteries are the key technology here, and China is bringing far more battery tech online than anyone else: http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/ http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium...
nikofeyn 8y ago
you are the one uninformed, so maybe you should do a search? there is nothing mysterious about chinese auto manufacturers, in particular the ones making electric vehicles. what do you consider the "market at large"? as someone else mentioned to you, china is the biggest electric vehicle maker and seller in the world. china is also the world's largest auto market. some of the ones that i have personal experience with are nio, geely, saic roewe, and byd. there are many, many more. i have ridden in the last three brands multiple times and saw the nio showroom cars. the three brands i rode in were very nice cars and obviously affordable since most of my rides in them were with didi drivers, china's uber. hacker news, along with many in technology in the u.s., has a huge bias against china. but this is going to catch up with the u.s. in a bad way. china is catching up, and in many cases, exceeding, the u.s. in many industries. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-tesla https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-23/china-s-carmakers-want-to-dominate-world-s-next-era-of-driving https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-23/china-s-c...
- fossuser 8y ago
  Is this the 50 cent party? When you make claims you should provide examples to support them, it also doesn’t help that your comments come across as hostile. Both of those links talk a lot about Chinese ambition and not a lot about any cars being manufactured.

rconti 8y ago

There are a number of reasons those cars aren't sold in the US, and inability to pass any kind of safety standard is certainly going to be one of them. Of course, the fact that our market is (probably) smaller than theirs with way more red tape (including the aforementioned safety standards) doesn't hurt.

plaguuuuuu 8y ago
I mean, there's a risk/reward ratio. if I was in a country with 1bn people, I probably wouldn't risk moving to a market with less people that are suspicious of Chinese manufactured cars at this point either
mrep 8y ago
Also, I would bet a lot of money those cars infringe on some patents.
nikofeyn 8y ago
those are all excuses that, in my opinion, causes one to ignore the progress over there. it's dangerous thinking. do you really think that tesla is as safe as other established car manufacturers? (i am aware of their "ratings", which i find hard to believe.) edit: and you can see my other reply or do a google search to see that china's car manufacturing revolution, including their massive and unparalleled surge into electric vehicles, is something one cannot simply write off. i don't know why people like you hold your opinions in the face of the history of brands like hyundai and kia. kia used to make terrible cars, but is now one of the top auto manufacturers in terms of value, execution, and design. just take a look at the new kia stinger and huge success of the optima model line.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  > i am aware of their "ratings", which i find hard to believe. Is this common among the anti-Tesla crowd? I think you're the first crash rating conspiracy theorist I've come across. If anything I'd assume that the organisations doing the testing would be deeply connected with traditional car manufacturers and that Tesla (as a newcomer) would actually be at a disadvantage. Perhaps you know something we don't?

kllrnohj 8y ago

> and the fit and finish was just as good if not better than tesla Tesla has the worst fit & finish in the industry. It always comes up with every tear down & deep review of a Tesla car. Tesla's powertrain is largely the only thing they are good at, and has so far been the thing other car manufacturers have struggled to match.

fossuser 8y ago
Their software with OTA is best in class with nobody even close, their self driving tech is also the best with Cruise coming in second (but including all the other negatives of GM). The seats they’re making in house now are also very comfortable and I like the minimalist interior of the 3, but that’s personal preference. The buying experience was also nice not having to deal with dealers. Their power train and supercharger infrastructure is awesome but it’s not the only thing they’re good at.
sgillen 8y ago
The other thing they are very good at is marketing, both to consumers and to potential employees. I think this is largely thanks to the cult of personality around Elon Musk. I don’t really mean that in a bad way either. If they can retain the engineering talent that has been making their cars (which is by no means guaranteed, from the stories I’ve heard of working conditions) then I think they have a good chance of catching up in the areas where they currently lag behind other companies.
nickik 8y ago
That's just non-sense. If you look at the teardown you will see that Tesla has great electronics (and cheap), best in class battery packs, a fantastic design, great suspension, software integration, innovative air condition, good charging speed and autopilot that is better then most competition. Really the only thing they are not great at is some part of the interior (and not the important console part at the front) and that they have a somewhat cumbersome heavy body.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  > Really the only thing they are not great at is some part of the interior (and not the important console part at the front) and that they have a somewhat cumbersome heavy body. Pretty sure you're oblivious to what fit and finish means based off of this comment. You listed a bunch of stuff that's not fit and finish followed by acknowledging that stuff that does contribute to fit and finish is poor. Fit and finish are things like panel gaps, paint job quality, interior quality, etc... And Tesla regularly is pitiful at it.

mh8h 8y ago

There's also the charging network. At least in the North America the Tesla supercharger network is the only viable option if you are doing a road trip.

nikofeyn 8y ago
i am not knowledgeable about the charging network in either the u.s. or in china. but china has sold more electric cars than anyone, so if i were to wager a guess, i would have to assume the charging network is superior to the one in the u.s.