3 ms·

Indeed. For all the talk about "range anxiety", it is a real concern that only Tesla seems to be actively working towards eliminating. I've needed to drive ac

Indeed. For all the talk about "range anxiety", it is a real concern that only Tesla seems to be actively working towards eliminating. I've needed to drive across the country every year for the past 4 years, and allocating extra days to stop and charge was never an option. That's one aspect where my cheap Honda beats most electric vehicles. For EV to go truly mainstream, that should not be the case.

taneq 8y ago
Best is the enemy of good, and perfect is the mortal enemy of best. Just because a vehicle isn't 100% perfect for 100% of people doesn't mean it isn't the best vehicle for most people.
- romwell 8y ago
  True, true. But in the end, a car is a car is a car. It gets me places. I'd say the ability to get to places is pretty critical for a car. It's what distinguishes it from something that's not a car, for example, a boat anchor. A long road-trip is not an edge case. It's the most affordable - and one of the most popular - ways to have a vacation[1]. National parks alone get over 300 million visits, but they're by far not the only destination. Overall, road trips account for an astonishing 39 percent of vacations[2]. As both articles note, the reasons to choose a road trip over flying include economical considerations; most people travel in their own cars. Does it mean that EV aren't good? No. But to prevail, EV need to be better than ICE cars at the same price point. And as of today, they are really not the best vehicle for most people, by far. Without the supercharger network, EV are not practical for most. See this thread[3] for examples of when Tesla owners use ICE cars. All that is to say that how good an EV is for most people is determined a lot by the available infrastructure. So good on Tesla for being way ahead of the competition here. [1]https://skift.com/2018/05/22/how-driving-defines-us-the-future-of-american-road-trips/ https://skift.com/2018/05/22/how-driving-defines-us-the-futu... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/travel/road-trips-in-the-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/travel/road-trips-in-the-... [3]https://www.quora.com/Do-Tesla-Model-S-owners-and-primary-drivers-keep-also-owning-and-driving-other-ICE-cars-day-to-day-and-trips https://www.quora.com/Do-Tesla-Model-S-owners-and-primary-dr...
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    It seems to me that a long road trip is an edge case. It's not extremely rare, but it's quite far from the most common use of a car, IMO. If you plot "number of long road trips per car per year", the mode is probably zero and I'd wager that fewer than 10% of cars are taken on a long road trip more than one time per year and fewer than 5% more than two times per year. Taking your one-year figure of 39% of vacations as road trips, that's still fewer than one road trip per car per year. There's little over 1 car registered per adult in the US. Assuming an average 1 week vacation 1 time per year, with 39% being road trips, and 2 adults per road trip, that's one road trip per year for every 5 cars. If the average car is driven 8000 miles per year (lots of cars driven under 1000 miles to offset the more typical 12-15K/yr figure) and a road trip is 500 miles, it's about 100 miles of road trip usage against an average of 8000 miles, or about 1.25% use for road trips. Considering most of the road trip car use would be on cars used a more typically 12-15K, it's under 1% of usage. It would take some significant errors in the Fermi estimates above to suggest that road trip usage is a typical use. If you have a battery electric and don't want to or can't road trip in it, rent a gas car one week a year. If you do more frequent road trips, a gas car or hybrid is a better bet probably.
AshleyGrant 8y ago
Electrify America is actively working to build out a DC Fast Charging network: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger Here's some quotes from their plan: "Electrify America is investing in roughly 900 charging stations across the United States by mid-2019. These stations have multiple dispensers with more than 5,000 charging ports available." "Electrify America’s DC Fast EV charging stations will be located along high-traffic corridors in 39 states, including two cross-country routes. Locations will accommodate between four and ten chargers, with charging power levels up to 350kW available at every station, capable of adding 20 miles of range per minute to a vehicle. Nationally, each planned station site will be located no more than 120 miles apart and, on key East and West Coast highways, planned locations average only 70 miles apart." Don't get me wrong. There are gaps in their planned build-out, but they should be able to quickly build out to a point where their charging network suffices for the vast majority of Americans typical long distance driving needs. For everything else, rental cars are still an option, and the future should bring even more DCFC infrastructure build-out.

taneq 8y ago

Best is the enemy of good, and perfect is the mortal enemy of best. Just because a vehicle isn't 100% perfect for 100% of people doesn't mean it isn't the best vehicle for most people.

romwell 8y ago
True, true. But in the end, a car is a car is a car. It gets me places. I'd say the ability to get to places is pretty critical for a car. It's what distinguishes it from something that's not a car, for example, a boat anchor. A long road-trip is not an edge case. It's the most affordable - and one of the most popular - ways to have a vacation[1]. National parks alone get over 300 million visits, but they're by far not the only destination. Overall, road trips account for an astonishing 39 percent of vacations[2]. As both articles note, the reasons to choose a road trip over flying include economical considerations; most people travel in their own cars. Does it mean that EV aren't good? No. But to prevail, EV need to be better than ICE cars at the same price point. And as of today, they are really not the best vehicle for most people, by far. Without the supercharger network, EV are not practical for most. See this thread[3] for examples of when Tesla owners use ICE cars. All that is to say that how good an EV is for most people is determined a lot by the available infrastructure. So good on Tesla for being way ahead of the competition here. [1]https://skift.com/2018/05/22/how-driving-defines-us-the-future-of-american-road-trips/ https://skift.com/2018/05/22/how-driving-defines-us-the-futu... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/travel/road-trips-in-the-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/travel/road-trips-in-the-... [3]https://www.quora.com/Do-Tesla-Model-S-owners-and-primary-drivers-keep-also-owning-and-driving-other-ICE-cars-day-to-day-and-trips https://www.quora.com/Do-Tesla-Model-S-owners-and-primary-dr...
- sokoloff 8y ago
  It seems to me that a long road trip is an edge case. It's not extremely rare, but it's quite far from the most common use of a car, IMO. If you plot "number of long road trips per car per year", the mode is probably zero and I'd wager that fewer than 10% of cars are taken on a long road trip more than one time per year and fewer than 5% more than two times per year. Taking your one-year figure of 39% of vacations as road trips, that's still fewer than one road trip per car per year. There's little over 1 car registered per adult in the US. Assuming an average 1 week vacation 1 time per year, with 39% being road trips, and 2 adults per road trip, that's one road trip per year for every 5 cars. If the average car is driven 8000 miles per year (lots of cars driven under 1000 miles to offset the more typical 12-15K/yr figure) and a road trip is 500 miles, it's about 100 miles of road trip usage against an average of 8000 miles, or about 1.25% use for road trips. Considering most of the road trip car use would be on cars used a more typically 12-15K, it's under 1% of usage. It would take some significant errors in the Fermi estimates above to suggest that road trip usage is a typical use. If you have a battery electric and don't want to or can't road trip in it, rent a gas car one week a year. If you do more frequent road trips, a gas car or hybrid is a better bet probably.

AshleyGrant 8y ago

Electrify America is actively working to build out a DC Fast Charging network: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger Here's some quotes from their plan: "Electrify America is investing in roughly 900 charging stations across the United States by mid-2019. These stations have multiple dispensers with more than 5,000 charging ports available." "Electrify America’s DC Fast EV charging stations will be located along high-traffic corridors in 39 states, including two cross-country routes. Locations will accommodate between four and ten chargers, with charging power levels up to 350kW available at every station, capable of adding 20 miles of range per minute to a vehicle. Nationally, each planned station site will be located no more than 120 miles apart and, on key East and West Coast highways, planned locations average only 70 miles apart." Don't get me wrong. There are gaps in their planned build-out, but they should be able to quickly build out to a point where their charging network suffices for the vast majority of Americans typical long distance driving needs. For everything else, rental cars are still an option, and the future should bring even more DCFC infrastructure build-out.