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I think "political correctness" as a term is generally interpreted by people to be "a level of sensitivity beyond what I think is reasonable", so it stands to r

by imgabe 8y ago

I think "political correctness" as a term is generally interpreted by people to be "a level of sensitivity beyond what I think is reasonable", so it stands to reason that most people are going to be against it. In order for this to make any sense, you'd have to break it down specific things. Most people are going to agree with something like "racial slurs are not ok". They're not going to consider it "politically correct" to not use racial slurs, they'd just consider it common decency. Maybe the same person who doesn't think racial slurs are ok, thinks it's unreasonable for someone to get bent out of shape about being called the wrong gender pronoun. But someone who takes the pronoun issue seriously is going to consider that just common decency and is going to draw the line for "politically correct" somewhere else.

tomlock 8y ago
Agreed. In my opinion, labeling someone as too politically correct will only garner a response of "that's not true". So basically anytime anyone says it, it's just name calling, nobody learned anything more about the other person's position or reasoning. Useless.
Negitivefrags 8y ago
They didn’t ask if they thought political correctness is a good thing, they asked if it was a problem. This means that they are asking if it’s an issue that is negatively affecting the world. If you think pronouns are an issue then you will not think political correctness is a problem even if your definition of it was more extreme than others because as far as you are concerned, few people are being politically correct.
castlecrasher2 8y ago
The phrase "everything is political" or "x is inherently political" some people use came to mind when reading your last paragraph. For them, I imagine political correctness isn't an offset, it just doesn't exist, or anyone far enough to the right is the sensitive one.
mklingen 8y ago
Exactly. I think people have been conditioned to see "political correctness" as something bad, and have different views of what it means. You can oppose "political correctness" and have literal nazis and KKK members nodding along because they think it means "anything other than white supremacy", while at the same time you can have centrists nodding along because they think it means "using the correct gender pronoun in all settings." I think this is a result of an intense propaganda campaign on the right that has distorted the meaning of political correctness so that it can mean anything the reader dislikes.
- darkerside 8y ago
  > centrists > correct gender pronoun I don't think your average centrist knows what that it
  - basilgohar 8y ago
    > I don't think your average centrist knows what that it I think you're illustrating exactly the point that was aimed for – everyone defines these vague concepts relative to their own perception. Even what is "center" is probably bound to vary wildly depending on ones own perspective.
    - darkerside 8y ago
      On any given line segment, the center is fixed. It's only perceptions of it that vary wildly. What's also does vary is people's definition of the line segment, both directionally (what do liberal and conservative actually mean?), and where it starts and ends. When I define the start and end, I'm typically not talking about centrism in SF, or globally. I'm talking about centrism in the USA. I realize not everyone here is American, but that may provide context for my statement.
- throwaway287391 8y ago
  > I think people have been conditioned to see "political correctness" as something bad, and have different views of what it means. > I think this is a result of an intense propaganda campaign on the right that has distorted the meaning of political correctness. I haven't looked up the etymology, but I've always assumed the term has been pejorative/satirical/tongue-in-cheek since its inception. Think about it -- it implies there's a different form of "correctness" that isn't actually "correct", but merely "politically correct" -- i.e. correct only in the context of overly carefully worded political pandering. I can't imagine somebody unironically choosing to describe their own speech as "politically correct".
Nasrudith 8y ago
Not to mention other instances of political correctness that aren't usually called that even though it fits the original definition far better. Saying ACAB or kneeling before the American flag will cause offense in many let alone something more inflammatory like "screw the troops". One could regard all of the above as wrong but that is the whole point - so do the current for the mainstream political correctness. Despite it literally being related to the state and thus far more politically correct and power linked than even the most tedious pedant about terms for minorities.
dougmwne 8y ago
Totally. If I ask the "correct" way to refer to a minority, I'll get a casual answer. If I ask for the "politically correct" term, everyone will know that I mean something annoying, self-censoring, fake and constructed for ideological reasons. Politically correct is almost an antonym of correct, similar to the term malicious compliance. If this study had asked, "Is calling people Native American a problem in our society", somehow I doubt anyone would have said yes.
flukus 8y ago
There's also the time component to consider, PC language evolves faster than natural language and a lot of people struggle to keep up. It wasn't too long ago (well within living memory) that negro was the PC term and since then we've been through colored, African American, People of Color and possibly some more I'm missing. It's easy to assume malice where it was never intended and the person was actually trying to use the correct term. An example I'm more familiar with personally is spastic, my disabled sister went to a school literally called "The Spastic School" until the term was deemed un-PC in the 90's, then it became "The special School" and something else now. I'm aware of the change but a couple of decades on it's not uncommon to run into someone that doesn't realize spastic became a derogatory term, simply because it's not a situation the encounter very often. The change seems to be even harder for words used everyday. In Australia (and probably the UK) Sheila is often considered a derogatory term for a woman, but many older men will use it the way we use chick/girl/women. It seems like the frequency of use creates a self-reinforcing pattern, you won't find many people under 50 using the word and the over 50's that do will keep using it until the die. So aside from sensitivity, for many it's just resistance to change for various reasons.
beatgammit 8y ago
Exactly. The real issue at hand is that people get upset too easily, on both sides. How about we all just go with the assumption that others aren't jerks? We can have rational discussions about what we like and don't like. If I use a pronoun that you feel doesn't fit you, it's most likely an honest mistake, even if it happens a few times. Likewise if I disagree with you on a social policy, it's very likely that I'm not bigoted toward whichever group you want to protect, I may think it's not something that government should be involved in or perhaps I haven't read the evidence you have and thus I don't think it's a problem that needs policy to fix. If we all assume the best intentions in others, I think we'll all get along just fine.

by imgabe 8y ago

tomlock 8y ago

Agreed. In my opinion, labeling someone as too politically correct will only garner a response of "that's not true". So basically anytime anyone says it, it's just name calling, nobody learned anything more about the other person's position or reasoning. Useless.

Negitivefrags 8y ago

They didn’t ask if they thought political correctness is a good thing, they asked if it was a problem. This means that they are asking if it’s an issue that is negatively affecting the world. If you think pronouns are an issue then you will not think political correctness is a problem even if your definition of it was more extreme than others because as far as you are concerned, few people are being politically correct.

castlecrasher2 8y ago

The phrase "everything is political" or "x is inherently political" some people use came to mind when reading your last paragraph. For them, I imagine political correctness isn't an offset, it just doesn't exist, or anyone far enough to the right is the sensitive one.

mklingen 8y ago

Exactly. I think people have been conditioned to see "political correctness" as something bad, and have different views of what it means. You can oppose "political correctness" and have literal nazis and KKK members nodding along because they think it means "anything other than white supremacy", while at the same time you can have centrists nodding along because they think it means "using the correct gender pronoun in all settings." I think this is a result of an intense propaganda campaign on the right that has distorted the meaning of political correctness so that it can mean anything the reader dislikes.

darkerside 8y ago
> centrists > correct gender pronoun I don't think your average centrist knows what that it
- basilgohar 8y ago
  > I don't think your average centrist knows what that it I think you're illustrating exactly the point that was aimed for – everyone defines these vague concepts relative to their own perception. Even what is "center" is probably bound to vary wildly depending on ones own perspective.
  - darkerside 8y ago
    On any given line segment, the center is fixed. It's only perceptions of it that vary wildly. What's also does vary is people's definition of the line segment, both directionally (what do liberal and conservative actually mean?), and where it starts and ends. When I define the start and end, I'm typically not talking about centrism in SF, or globally. I'm talking about centrism in the USA. I realize not everyone here is American, but that may provide context for my statement.
throwaway287391 8y ago
> I think people have been conditioned to see "political correctness" as something bad, and have different views of what it means. > I think this is a result of an intense propaganda campaign on the right that has distorted the meaning of political correctness. I haven't looked up the etymology, but I've always assumed the term has been pejorative/satirical/tongue-in-cheek since its inception. Think about it -- it implies there's a different form of "correctness" that isn't actually "correct", but merely "politically correct" -- i.e. correct only in the context of overly carefully worded political pandering. I can't imagine somebody unironically choosing to describe their own speech as "politically correct".

Nasrudith 8y ago

Not to mention other instances of political correctness that aren't usually called that even though it fits the original definition far better. Saying ACAB or kneeling before the American flag will cause offense in many let alone something more inflammatory like "screw the troops". One could regard all of the above as wrong but that is the whole point - so do the current for the mainstream political correctness. Despite it literally being related to the state and thus far more politically correct and power linked than even the most tedious pedant about terms for minorities.

dougmwne 8y ago

Totally. If I ask the "correct" way to refer to a minority, I'll get a casual answer. If I ask for the "politically correct" term, everyone will know that I mean something annoying, self-censoring, fake and constructed for ideological reasons. Politically correct is almost an antonym of correct, similar to the term malicious compliance. If this study had asked, "Is calling people Native American a problem in our society", somehow I doubt anyone would have said yes.

flukus 8y ago

There's also the time component to consider, PC language evolves faster than natural language and a lot of people struggle to keep up. It wasn't too long ago (well within living memory) that negro was the PC term and since then we've been through colored, African American, People of Color and possibly some more I'm missing. It's easy to assume malice where it was never intended and the person was actually trying to use the correct term. An example I'm more familiar with personally is spastic, my disabled sister went to a school literally called "The Spastic School" until the term was deemed un-PC in the 90's, then it became "The special School" and something else now. I'm aware of the change but a couple of decades on it's not uncommon to run into someone that doesn't realize spastic became a derogatory term, simply because it's not a situation the encounter very often. The change seems to be even harder for words used everyday. In Australia (and probably the UK) Sheila is often considered a derogatory term for a woman, but many older men will use it the way we use chick/girl/women. It seems like the frequency of use creates a self-reinforcing pattern, you won't find many people under 50 using the word and the over 50's that do will keep using it until the die. So aside from sensitivity, for many it's just resistance to change for various reasons.

beatgammit 8y ago

Exactly. The real issue at hand is that people get upset too easily, on both sides. How about we all just go with the assumption that others aren't jerks? We can have rational discussions about what we like and don't like. If I use a pronoun that you feel doesn't fit you, it's most likely an honest mistake, even if it happens a few times. Likewise if I disagree with you on a social policy, it's very likely that I'm not bigoted toward whichever group you want to protect, I may think it's not something that government should be involved in or perhaps I haven't read the evidence you have and thus I don't think it's a problem that needs policy to fix. If we all assume the best intentions in others, I think we'll all get along just fine.