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The H-1B topic strikes a personal tone with me. After the dot-com crash in the early 2000's, IT jobs in California were hard to come by. I almost got one job, b

by tabtab 8y ago

The H-1B topic strikes a personal tone with me. After the dot-com crash in the early 2000's, IT jobs in California were hard to come by. I almost got one job, but the company decided to go with an H-1B worker instead. I had a new young family, but had to go out of state to find work, leaving my family behind. I'm NOT summarily against H-1B's but wish to insist they be used ONLY to fill in true skill shortages instead of those manufactured via job ad word-smithing.

qaq 8y ago
I think it will not change anything to be honest. I work for a relatively large US company we have offices in CA, VA, NC, Ireland, Germany, India. If it becomes harder to higher in US they will just grow teams in other offices.
- tabtab 8y ago
  But not every organization is internationally distributed like that. If physical location of employee really didn't matter, then your org would have most of its IT staff in India, because the labor rates are lower and that's the largest pool of English-speaking IT talent. I agree there is some fluidity to IT labor, but there is a limit to it also. Besides, the stated on-paper purpose of H-1B visas is to fill (alleged) skills shortages. After the dot-com crash there was a big surplus of labor in the area, yet us citizens were competing with H-1B's still. The stated goal was missing the target during that time.
  - qaq 8y ago
    I'd say the ones employing majority of programmers are and that will affect the market at large.
gdilla 8y ago
Don't mean to sound harsh but anyone who can't compete with an H1B to the extent they can't find a job in the entire state of CA should take a hard look at their skills and expectations and change one or both.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Please elaborate. The time-period was after the dot-com crash. Companies were laying off IT employees left and right, often because the companies died. CA was flooded with excess IT workers. I even put an ad on Craigslist around 2002 that I'd do development for minimum wage. No takers. What else do you want? I nearly left IT. Okay, I'm not the cream of the crop I admit, but are you saying average developers should get out?
  - gdilla 8y ago
    But companies in CA were still hiring, as you mentioned. If the labor pool was flooded with laid off workers, then it's a buyers market. You would think the companies can just hire from that pool for whatever they wanted to pay (cuz in such a climate, they would have takers), without bothering with the H1B search and paperwork hassle.
    - whyaduck 8y ago
      Hiring isn't as simple as paying the least possible in the current climate. Significant variance in salary among people with similar jobs will be an issue (people talk). Additionally, labor surpluses don't last forever. Low-ball salaries in that situation will lead to turnover at the worst time - when the economy is recovering.
    - tabtab 8y ago
      If they are thinking medium or longer term, then the short-term slump may weigh less in their decision process. A visa worker is less likely to be ABLE to go elsewhere if/when economy or an industry improves. They are almost like indentured servants.
kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
> I almost got one job, but the company decided to go with an H-1B worker instead. This scenario is explicitly forbidden by the provisions of the visa program and it is illegal to select a guest worker in preference to a domestic candidate. That is why there is a public notification requirement for all jobs open to guest workers. Obviously all it takes is one minor reason to deem you unqualified. The Disney IT incident shows that there are no consequences for abusing American employees.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  They can go get hired elsewhere I suppose. Does it rise to 'abuse'? Who is entitled to a particular job anyway?
  - leereeves 8y ago
    Who is "entitled" to work in America is defined by the law, which disallows replacing American workers with H1B recipients. Are you suggesting that everyone in the world should have the right to live and work in America?
- saas_sam 8y ago
  "Public notification requirement" = job posting you leave up and internal email you circulate to CYA in case you get audited. It's a ruse. This can't be enforced.
calvinbhai 8y ago
As someone who has worked on H1b in US, I can understand what you are saying. Primary reason an H1b with a net hourly rate same as a US citizen is more attractive to hire, is because the costs of firing that employee are too low. Unlike a citizen, especially if the citizen is older. With the suggestion made in the Bloomberg article, it’d have probably been a positive outcome for you if H1b was distributed by way of highest salary first, instead of lottery (which I think didn’t exist during the dot com boom).

by tabtab 8y ago

qaq 8y ago

I think it will not change anything to be honest. I work for a relatively large US company we have offices in CA, VA, NC, Ireland, Germany, India. If it becomes harder to higher in US they will just grow teams in other offices.

tabtab 8y ago
But not every organization is internationally distributed like that. If physical location of employee really didn't matter, then your org would have most of its IT staff in India, because the labor rates are lower and that's the largest pool of English-speaking IT talent. I agree there is some fluidity to IT labor, but there is a limit to it also. Besides, the stated on-paper purpose of H-1B visas is to fill (alleged) skills shortages. After the dot-com crash there was a big surplus of labor in the area, yet us citizens were competing with H-1B's still. The stated goal was missing the target during that time.
- qaq 8y ago
  I'd say the ones employing majority of programmers are and that will affect the market at large.

gdilla 8y ago

Don't mean to sound harsh but anyone who can't compete with an H1B to the extent they can't find a job in the entire state of CA should take a hard look at their skills and expectations and change one or both.

tabtab 8y ago
Please elaborate. The time-period was after the dot-com crash. Companies were laying off IT employees left and right, often because the companies died. CA was flooded with excess IT workers. I even put an ad on Craigslist around 2002 that I'd do development for minimum wage. No takers. What else do you want? I nearly left IT. Okay, I'm not the cream of the crop I admit, but are you saying average developers should get out?
- gdilla 8y ago
  But companies in CA were still hiring, as you mentioned. If the labor pool was flooded with laid off workers, then it's a buyers market. You would think the companies can just hire from that pool for whatever they wanted to pay (cuz in such a climate, they would have takers), without bothering with the H1B search and paperwork hassle.
  - whyaduck 8y ago
    Hiring isn't as simple as paying the least possible in the current climate. Significant variance in salary among people with similar jobs will be an issue (people talk). Additionally, labor surpluses don't last forever. Low-ball salaries in that situation will lead to turnover at the worst time - when the economy is recovering.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    If they are thinking medium or longer term, then the short-term slump may weigh less in their decision process. A visa worker is less likely to be ABLE to go elsewhere if/when economy or an industry improves. They are almost like indentured servants.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

> I almost got one job, but the company decided to go with an H-1B worker instead. This scenario is explicitly forbidden by the provisions of the visa program and it is illegal to select a guest worker in preference to a domestic candidate. That is why there is a public notification requirement for all jobs open to guest workers. Obviously all it takes is one minor reason to deem you unqualified. The Disney IT incident shows that there are no consequences for abusing American employees.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
They can go get hired elsewhere I suppose. Does it rise to 'abuse'? Who is entitled to a particular job anyway?
- leereeves 8y ago
  Who is "entitled" to work in America is defined by the law, which disallows replacing American workers with H1B recipients. Are you suggesting that everyone in the world should have the right to live and work in America?
saas_sam 8y ago
"Public notification requirement" = job posting you leave up and internal email you circulate to CYA in case you get audited. It's a ruse. This can't be enforced.

calvinbhai 8y ago

As someone who has worked on H1b in US, I can understand what you are saying. Primary reason an H1b with a net hourly rate same as a US citizen is more attractive to hire, is because the costs of firing that employee are too low. Unlike a citizen, especially if the citizen is older. With the suggestion made in the Bloomberg article, it’d have probably been a positive outcome for you if H1b was distributed by way of highest salary first, instead of lottery (which I think didn’t exist during the dot com boom).