3 ms·

I don't understand this either. There is an interesting blog post that suggests maybe some programmers get tripped up because they want to find a more clever wa

by geebee 8y ago

I don't understand this either. There is an interesting blog post that suggests maybe some programmers get tripped up because they want to find a more clever way to do it: http://www.gayle.com/blog/2016/1/fizzbuzz-youre-doing-something-wrong http://www.gayle.com/blog/2016/1/fizzbuzz-youre-doing-someth... It doesn't sound like this is the problem, though, in all the cases. It sounds like someone who majored in CS was unable to write this. Which seems inconceivable to me. And yeah, "inconceivable" is often based on wrong assumptions (it was the basis of one of the oft-repeated lines from cinema: you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means). But... is there a chance that maybe "CS" just means different things from different programs. I feel like it should be... well, impossible for someone who graduates from a proper CS program to fail to write fizz buzz. I know, I know, the "no true scotsman" is already getting typed into the response field. But here's the thing, I'm not defining a "proper" program as one that results in an ability to write fizz buzz. I'm defining it as a program that contains, at a minimum, basic algrothmns and data structures. Do people graduate with CS degrees without coding a linked list, binary tree, doing basic sorting, and set permutations? I'd say if you take that one required class, it should be more or less impossible to not write fizz buzz. I'd be interested in knowing what the "CS" curriculum was for people who can't write this.

jki275 8y ago
You don't even need algorithms or data structures -- it's a cs101/151 problem at best. When I first saw the problem the solution appeared self evident to me -- I've been coding since the 80s, but still. It's just a simple problem and writing the pseudocode for a question like it ought to be almost second nature to anyone who has done any coding at all. I know people confuse CS and IT/CIS, but even at that, those majors generally require at least one basic CS class.
- geebee 8y ago
  I agree, you don't need data structures for fizz buzz. In fact, I think it would be tough to pass data structures if you weren't at the level where you could write fizzbuzz, so it's more or a pre-req. I have trouble imagining what is taught in a CS program that doesn't have a course in data structures and algorithms. How can it be CS? That said... I keep hearing about fizzbuzz, and I'm not sure what I think of the complaint. I hear something along the lines of "We need to do technical screening because you wouldn't believe how many people can't do fizz buzz", but the questions aren't fizz buzz, they're "find all matching subtrees in a binary tree", often at the whiteboard, in 45 minutes. I'm not saying that this is (or isn't) unreasonable, just that there's an awful big difference between fizz buzz and the kind of questions I've encountered in a typical tech interview.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Both candidates are in abundance. I know plenty of “engineers” who can’t do fizzbuz. I also know talented developers who can do fizzbuz for you in 60 seconds, but might not be able to invert your binary tree on a whiteboard in that amount of time. Neither of them are getting past today’s ultra picky interview-hazing rituals. One probably shouldn’t get hired while the other should. Companies seem to have a hard time distinguishing them.

by geebee 8y ago

jki275 8y ago

You don't even need algorithms or data structures -- it's a cs101/151 problem at best. When I first saw the problem the solution appeared self evident to me -- I've been coding since the 80s, but still. It's just a simple problem and writing the pseudocode for a question like it ought to be almost second nature to anyone who has done any coding at all. I know people confuse CS and IT/CIS, but even at that, those majors generally require at least one basic CS class.

geebee 8y ago
I agree, you don't need data structures for fizz buzz. In fact, I think it would be tough to pass data structures if you weren't at the level where you could write fizzbuzz, so it's more or a pre-req. I have trouble imagining what is taught in a CS program that doesn't have a course in data structures and algorithms. How can it be CS? That said... I keep hearing about fizzbuzz, and I'm not sure what I think of the complaint. I hear something along the lines of "We need to do technical screening because you wouldn't believe how many people can't do fizz buzz", but the questions aren't fizz buzz, they're "find all matching subtrees in a binary tree", often at the whiteboard, in 45 minutes. I'm not saying that this is (or isn't) unreasonable, just that there's an awful big difference between fizz buzz and the kind of questions I've encountered in a typical tech interview.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Both candidates are in abundance. I know plenty of “engineers” who can’t do fizzbuz. I also know talented developers who can do fizzbuz for you in 60 seconds, but might not be able to invert your binary tree on a whiteboard in that amount of time. Neither of them are getting past today’s ultra picky interview-hazing rituals. One probably shouldn’t get hired while the other should. Companies seem to have a hard time distinguishing them.