2 ms·

Software scientist != software/hardware engineer != software/hardware developer != programmer/coder. Programmer must know how to program. Software developer m

Software scientist != software/hardware engineer != software/hardware developer != programmer/coder. Programmer must know how to program. Software developer must know how to make good software product. Software engineer must know how to understand and meet specifications, follow engineering codex, and son on. And so on. I'm talking about software developers. You are showing me examples unrelated to professional software product development at all. Moreover, there are lot of professionals in IT, but only part of them are software developers. So we are just talking about different things: you are talking about "someone who sits in front in compute and enters programming code", while I'm talking about professional Software Developer, short segment of IT professionals, subset of programmers.

ElFitz 8y ago
You are pretty much making my point, you know that, right ? I'm talking about people who are one of the or the only persons with any technical knowledge in their companies, who's job it is to interpret and understand whatever the requirements are and deliver on the products, wether it's apps, web or mobile, back-ends or both. They need to know how to make good software products, they definitely should know how to understand and meet specifications, etc, etc, etc. They just don't. And yet, they have the positions they have. And what they're most lacking, contrary to the point you were making earlier, definitely isn't compiler theory or the ability to build shell scripting parsers, but the very abilities you just listed. So no, we are talking about the exact same thing, you just seem lucky enough not to have encountered this kind of people in that kind of position, and I'm glad we have finally come to an understanding.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  Of course, I know such people. They are called "anykeyers" in my country. And of course, they are not software developers or software engineers. If they have no education/training adequate to their profession, they are just amateurs. I trained about few dozens of them during my career. We have outsourcing industry in Ukraine, so "Software Developer" is well defined term here. Somebody cannot sit five years playing with Excel, or JS/HTML, or mobile apps and then pretend for Senior Developer salary. Inexperienced (junior) developers causes lots of problems to project and must be supervised by a senior developer. We work on tight budgets, so we have no time to play name games. If someone has "developer" in his title, he must meet expectations for his role. Otherwise, project will collapse and everyone will suffer.

ElFitz 8y ago

You are pretty much making my point, you know that, right ? I'm talking about people who are one of the or the only persons with any technical knowledge in their companies, who's job it is to interpret and understand whatever the requirements are and deliver on the products, wether it's apps, web or mobile, back-ends or both. They need to know how to make good software products, they definitely should know how to understand and meet specifications, etc, etc, etc. They just don't. And yet, they have the positions they have. And what they're most lacking, contrary to the point you were making earlier, definitely isn't compiler theory or the ability to build shell scripting parsers, but the very abilities you just listed. So no, we are talking about the exact same thing, you just seem lucky enough not to have encountered this kind of people in that kind of position, and I'm glad we have finally come to an understanding.

v_lisivka 8y ago
Of course, I know such people. They are called "anykeyers" in my country. And of course, they are not software developers or software engineers. If they have no education/training adequate to their profession, they are just amateurs. I trained about few dozens of them during my career. We have outsourcing industry in Ukraine, so "Software Developer" is well defined term here. Somebody cannot sit five years playing with Excel, or JS/HTML, or mobile apps and then pretend for Senior Developer salary. Inexperienced (junior) developers causes lots of problems to project and must be supervised by a senior developer. We work on tight budgets, so we have no time to play name games. If someone has "developer" in his title, he must meet expectations for his role. Otherwise, project will collapse and everyone will suffer.