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With Facebook and facial recognition, spies can be identified before they even know they want to become a spy. There is literally a lifetime of facial recogniti

With Facebook and facial recognition, spies can be identified before they even know they want to become a spy. There is literally a lifetime of facial recognition data on social networks for youths and college grads as they post their pics online, and if they get recruited to become a spy in their 20s, there will already be enough information to identify people globally, as they walk through airports, shopping centers, etc and have their pictures videoed constantly. Facebook, et. al is a treasure trove of data for purposes like these.

jonathantm 8y ago
signal v noise ma dude.
matty_makes 8y ago
The video describes mostly about what they would do under active surveillance e.g. people following them. Some of the prosthetics she describes also may throw off facial recognition.
cm2187 8y ago
I would assume that in front of the headquarter of any major intelligence agency, there is a dozen minivans, one for each foreign agency, taking continuously recording+facial recognition of employees coming in an out. Useful to spot foreign agents when they come through your airports security.
- qaq 8y ago
  One would imagine SAD/SOG types are not exactly walking in through front door there are prob protocols in place for this type of things.
  - qaq 8y ago
    Unless we are talking about something like Russian GRU than they will basically list GRU building as their registered address in various open and semi open databases.
    - madeuptempacct 8y ago
      What are you talking about? Active GRU agents don't get designated as GRU and get embedded in other units. Even on the direct action level, they aren't listed as GRU anywhere, wear the uniform of some regular unit in the area, and have paperwork saying they are a regular soldier.
      - qaq 8y ago
        You are not following events around Skripal poisoning are you?
        madeuptempacct 8y ago
        haha, I guess I am not. My "knowledge" comes from history books about the USSR, so I guess I expected them not to be total xxxx ups.
        wlll 8y ago
        This was such a total balls up that I wonder a little bit wether they did it on purpose so people wouldn't take them so seriously in the future.
        qaq 8y ago
        Nope you just have to stop projecting what USSR was onto Russia outside of mostly same territory there is not much left as far as capabilities especially as far as human capital.
      - lostconfused 8y ago
        Referring to https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2018/10/04/305-car-registrations-may-point-massive-gru-security-breach/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2018/10/04/305-car-registrat... Which is kind of a feel good story, point and laugh at those Russian idiots bungling things again.
  - module0000 8y ago
    SOG I suspect typically comes in through the skylight :)
    - SEJeff 8y ago
      Or a mousehole C4 charge placed on the exterior wall :)
- IgorPartola 8y ago
  Do you remember when that guy recorded parking lot activity at the CIA headquarters and nobody caught on until he later published his findings?
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    Sounds interesting. Link?
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Don't think that parking outside the FSB or GRU HQ is going to be possible for the CIA or SIS. Or vice versa. Hiding a fake base station to capture phones and wifi devices near by strikes me as one possible gambit (result of playing a lot or rpgs's over the years)
- lozaning 8y ago
  Or in the case of the FBI and the Russian Embassy in D.C, you just buy the small house across the street. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/fbi-spy-house https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/fbi-spy-house
joekrill 8y ago
Won't very good prosthetics thwart facial recognition? Maybe you can't change the distance between your eyes, but with the prosthetics she describes you could certainly change other geometries: forehead, chin, cheekbones, ears. etc.
- yeukhon 8y ago
  Maybe. Chinese surveillance is so advance it can detect a suspect in a crowded area pretty quickly. Its dataset is too huge. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/business/china-surveillance-technology.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/business/china-surveillan...
  - gowld 8y ago
    There's no reason to assume that China's tech actually works in the field. In totalitarian china, everyone is a suspect, so detecting a suspect is trivial. That article does a decent job of explaining that the surveillence is as much pseudoscience and propaganda as scientific technology. >>>> China’s national database of individuals it has flagged for watching — including suspected terrorists, criminals, drug traffickers, political activists and others — includes 20 million to 30 million people, said one technology executive who works closely with the government. ... Officials said humans still sift through the images to match them to people’s identities. ... In Zhengzhou, police were happy to explain how just the thought of the facial recognition glasses could get criminals to confess. Mr. Shan, the Zhengzhou railway station deputy police chief, cited the time his department grabbed a heroin smuggler. While questioning the suspect, Mr. Shan said, police pulled out the glasses and told the man that what he said didn’t matter. The glasses could give them all the information they needed. “Because he was afraid of being found out by the advanced technology, he confessed,” said Mr. Shan, adding that the suspect had swallowed 60 small packs of heroin.
    - echevil 8y ago
      There have been quite a few reports recently that wanted criminals were captured because of this technology. Some of those had been escaping from police for many years. It’s about capturing criminals not detecting suspects. Most interestingly, it happened several times that criminals were caught during watching Zhang Xueyou’s (a pop star) concert. An article mentioning that: https://qz.com/1285912/chinas-facial-recognition-cameras-keep-catching-fugitives-at-pop-star-jacky-cheungs-concerts/ https://qz.com/1285912/chinas-facial-recognition-cameras-kee... A recent article did some stats and claimed that a total of 55 criminals were captured at Zhang Xueyou's concert. http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2018/10-24/8658284.shtml http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2018/10-24/8658284.shtml
t-3 8y ago
Facial recognition is less important for spies; faces can be changed rather trivially. Gait analysis and recognition is big too, and more prevalent than you might think. It's employed by large chain stores to track serial shoplifters.
- gugagore 8y ago
  Could you point me to more information about this gait analysis and which stores do this?
- eiaoa 8y ago
  > Gait analysis and recognition is big too, and more prevalent than you might think. The video did talk about changing gait, though it did mention it was difficult because it's so unconscious, so you have to use some object to make you consciously aware of it.
  - rdlecler1 8y ago
    There must be some spy shoes and leg/arm braces that distort gait.
    - kjetijor 8y ago
      The video did talk about rather low-tech solutions, constrict the movement of one of your knees lightly by putting a bandage round it, or stick a pebble in your shoe.
ataturk 8y ago
I don't buy it. Facial recognition has had as many failures as successes, probably more because we only hear about the times it works, not all the times it fails. It seems like it is something ridiculously easy to fool. I know you all love fancy tech, but there are and will be amazingly low-tech ways to defeat these systems. As far as developing profiles of every living person with a goal of knowing which ones will become spies, all I can say is good luck with that! Spies have been recruited from all walks of life, it cuts across all socioeconomic strata and all personality types. There isn't just a James Bond Type A personality type that becomes a spy and to think that betrays how little you have thought about this subject. Also, probably every person from China who comes to the US has been evaluated as an asset and may or may not be one, so figure 100% potential there.
- eiaoa 8y ago
  > I don't buy it. Facial recognition has had as many failures as successes, probably more because we only hear about the times it works, not all the times it fails. It seems like it is something ridiculously easy to fool. I know you all love fancy tech, but there are and will be amazingly low-tech ways to defeat these systems. Also, with a large enough population, you'll also have to deal with doppelgangers (e.g. https://twinstrangers.net/ https://twinstrangers.net/). Probably too many false positives to be very helpful, unless you're willing to spend a lot of money sorting through them. BTW, you're shadowbanned, and seem to have been for some time. All your comments are invisible to most users unless someone vouches for them.
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    > BTW, you're shadowbanned, and seem to have been for some time. All your comments are invisible to most users unless someone vouches for them. How can someone vouch for it if it's invisible to them?
    - detaro 8y ago
      You can opt-in to seeing dead comments with the showdead option in your profile.
philip1209 8y ago
https://www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-program-dramatically-cut-agencys-costs-1819594988 https://www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-program-dramatically-...
Regardsyjc 8y ago
This might be fake news but I thought this was hilarious when I saw it. "Russian spy service punishes trainees who drove through Moscow in a luxury convoy to celebrate graduation – and allowing themselves to be photographed " https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691711/Russian-spy-service-punishes-trainees-drove-Moscow-luxury-convoy-celebrate-graduation-allowing-photographed.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691711/Russian-spy...
- kanyethegreat 8y ago
  Or it was planted by the Russian spy agency as a decoy. Hmmm...

jonathantm 8y ago

signal v noise ma dude.

matty_makes 8y ago

The video describes mostly about what they would do under active surveillance e.g. people following them. Some of the prosthetics she describes also may throw off facial recognition.

cm2187 8y ago

I would assume that in front of the headquarter of any major intelligence agency, there is a dozen minivans, one for each foreign agency, taking continuously recording+facial recognition of employees coming in an out. Useful to spot foreign agents when they come through your airports security.

qaq 8y ago
One would imagine SAD/SOG types are not exactly walking in through front door there are prob protocols in place for this type of things.
- qaq 8y ago
  Unless we are talking about something like Russian GRU than they will basically list GRU building as their registered address in various open and semi open databases.
  - madeuptempacct 8y ago
    What are you talking about? Active GRU agents don't get designated as GRU and get embedded in other units. Even on the direct action level, they aren't listed as GRU anywhere, wear the uniform of some regular unit in the area, and have paperwork saying they are a regular soldier.
    - qaq 8y ago
      You are not following events around Skripal poisoning are you?
      - madeuptempacct 8y ago
        haha, I guess I am not. My "knowledge" comes from history books about the USSR, so I guess I expected them not to be total xxxx ups.
        wlll 8y ago
        This was such a total balls up that I wonder a little bit wether they did it on purpose so people wouldn't take them so seriously in the future.
        qaq 8y ago
        Nope you just have to stop projecting what USSR was onto Russia outside of mostly same territory there is not much left as far as capabilities especially as far as human capital.
    - lostconfused 8y ago
      Referring to https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2018/10/04/305-car-registrations-may-point-massive-gru-security-breach/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2018/10/04/305-car-registrat... Which is kind of a feel good story, point and laugh at those Russian idiots bungling things again.
- module0000 8y ago
  SOG I suspect typically comes in through the skylight :)
  - SEJeff 8y ago
    Or a mousehole C4 charge placed on the exterior wall :)
IgorPartola 8y ago
Do you remember when that guy recorded parking lot activity at the CIA headquarters and nobody caught on until he later published his findings?
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  Sounds interesting. Link?
C1sc0cat 8y ago
Don't think that parking outside the FSB or GRU HQ is going to be possible for the CIA or SIS. Or vice versa. Hiding a fake base station to capture phones and wifi devices near by strikes me as one possible gambit (result of playing a lot or rpgs's over the years)
lozaning 8y ago
Or in the case of the FBI and the Russian Embassy in D.C, you just buy the small house across the street. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/fbi-spy-house https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/fbi-spy-house

joekrill 8y ago

Won't very good prosthetics thwart facial recognition? Maybe you can't change the distance between your eyes, but with the prosthetics she describes you could certainly change other geometries: forehead, chin, cheekbones, ears. etc.

yeukhon 8y ago
Maybe. Chinese surveillance is so advance it can detect a suspect in a crowded area pretty quickly. Its dataset is too huge. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/business/china-surveillance-technology.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/business/china-surveillan...
- gowld 8y ago
  There's no reason to assume that China's tech actually works in the field. In totalitarian china, everyone is a suspect, so detecting a suspect is trivial. That article does a decent job of explaining that the surveillence is as much pseudoscience and propaganda as scientific technology. >>>> China’s national database of individuals it has flagged for watching — including suspected terrorists, criminals, drug traffickers, political activists and others — includes 20 million to 30 million people, said one technology executive who works closely with the government. ... Officials said humans still sift through the images to match them to people’s identities. ... In Zhengzhou, police were happy to explain how just the thought of the facial recognition glasses could get criminals to confess. Mr. Shan, the Zhengzhou railway station deputy police chief, cited the time his department grabbed a heroin smuggler. While questioning the suspect, Mr. Shan said, police pulled out the glasses and told the man that what he said didn’t matter. The glasses could give them all the information they needed. “Because he was afraid of being found out by the advanced technology, he confessed,” said Mr. Shan, adding that the suspect had swallowed 60 small packs of heroin.
  - echevil 8y ago
    There have been quite a few reports recently that wanted criminals were captured because of this technology. Some of those had been escaping from police for many years. It’s about capturing criminals not detecting suspects. Most interestingly, it happened several times that criminals were caught during watching Zhang Xueyou’s (a pop star) concert. An article mentioning that: https://qz.com/1285912/chinas-facial-recognition-cameras-keep-catching-fugitives-at-pop-star-jacky-cheungs-concerts/ https://qz.com/1285912/chinas-facial-recognition-cameras-kee... A recent article did some stats and claimed that a total of 55 criminals were captured at Zhang Xueyou's concert. http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2018/10-24/8658284.shtml http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2018/10-24/8658284.shtml

t-3 8y ago

Facial recognition is less important for spies; faces can be changed rather trivially. Gait analysis and recognition is big too, and more prevalent than you might think. It's employed by large chain stores to track serial shoplifters.

gugagore 8y ago
Could you point me to more information about this gait analysis and which stores do this?
eiaoa 8y ago
> Gait analysis and recognition is big too, and more prevalent than you might think. The video did talk about changing gait, though it did mention it was difficult because it's so unconscious, so you have to use some object to make you consciously aware of it.
- rdlecler1 8y ago
  There must be some spy shoes and leg/arm braces that distort gait.
  - kjetijor 8y ago
    The video did talk about rather low-tech solutions, constrict the movement of one of your knees lightly by putting a bandage round it, or stick a pebble in your shoe.

ataturk 8y ago

I don't buy it. Facial recognition has had as many failures as successes, probably more because we only hear about the times it works, not all the times it fails. It seems like it is something ridiculously easy to fool. I know you all love fancy tech, but there are and will be amazingly low-tech ways to defeat these systems. As far as developing profiles of every living person with a goal of knowing which ones will become spies, all I can say is good luck with that! Spies have been recruited from all walks of life, it cuts across all socioeconomic strata and all personality types. There isn't just a James Bond Type A personality type that becomes a spy and to think that betrays how little you have thought about this subject. Also, probably every person from China who comes to the US has been evaluated as an asset and may or may not be one, so figure 100% potential there.

eiaoa 8y ago
> I don't buy it. Facial recognition has had as many failures as successes, probably more because we only hear about the times it works, not all the times it fails. It seems like it is something ridiculously easy to fool. I know you all love fancy tech, but there are and will be amazingly low-tech ways to defeat these systems. Also, with a large enough population, you'll also have to deal with doppelgangers (e.g. https://twinstrangers.net/ https://twinstrangers.net/). Probably too many false positives to be very helpful, unless you're willing to spend a lot of money sorting through them. BTW, you're shadowbanned, and seem to have been for some time. All your comments are invisible to most users unless someone vouches for them.
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  > BTW, you're shadowbanned, and seem to have been for some time. All your comments are invisible to most users unless someone vouches for them. How can someone vouch for it if it's invisible to them?
  - detaro 8y ago
    You can opt-in to seeing dead comments with the showdead option in your profile.

philip1209 8y ago

https://www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-program-dramatically-cut-agencys-costs-1819594988 https://www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-program-dramatically-...

Regardsyjc 8y ago

This might be fake news but I thought this was hilarious when I saw it. "Russian spy service punishes trainees who drove through Moscow in a luxury convoy to celebrate graduation – and allowing themselves to be photographed " https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691711/Russian-spy-service-punishes-trainees-drove-Moscow-luxury-convoy-celebrate-graduation-allowing-photographed.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691711/Russian-spy...

kanyethegreat 8y ago
Or it was planted by the Russian spy agency as a decoy. Hmmm...