6 ms·

"Let people choose their own words to describe themselves." How is that PC? How is that not common courtesy??

by Frondo 8y ago

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
"organizing their own mind and behavior around somebody else's issues." Its very personal. Compound this with, the words seem silly and contrived. How about you address me as "Mr. Oingy Boingy" from now on. To get a flavor of the emotional content of language. Just as an example; choose your own. Let me be more helpful and less obtuse. Language is an emotional issue, so yes folks become pedantic and argumentative. That route (arguing) is unlikely to get a favorable response. What will work then? Empathizing, suggesting ways to help folks who are sensitive and understand their point of view. Things like that. I understand the frustration that comes with failure to convince, particularly when its a point that seem obvious and simple. I apologize for vectoring off with unhelpful comments about trolling. I'll try to understand the issue better in future. See? That was easy and didn't cost me anything. I'll take my own advice more in future.
yepguy 8y ago
It's special treatment rather than common courtesy. I don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to me by, and neither does anyone else I know. I would only be offended by someone misgendering me if it were clearly meant as an insult. If someone sincerely believes that people cannot choose their own gender, then it's not very clear to me that misgendering a trans person is disrespectful, rather than an honest indication of differing views on a single social issue.
- CocaKoala 8y ago
  > I don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to me by, and neither does anyone else I know. Why not? People do similar things all the time. If I introduced my friend Richard to you and he said "Please, call me Rich", would you say "Sorry buddy, no can do; Richard is your name, and that's what I have to call you"? Why are pronouns so special compared to names?
  - yepguy 8y ago
    I didn't choose my own name or nickname either, but I take your point that some people do. I guess I would say that pronouns are primarily syntactic constructs while proper nouns are not.
    - CocaKoala 8y ago
      When I was younger, I had fairly long hair. I've always been kind of a scrawny person with a fairly neutral face, so if you didn't look closely it was pretty easy to mistake me for a girl. If somebody mistook me for a girl and referred to me as "she" or "her", I would correct them. Are you saying that I didn't have the right to do that, because a pronoun is a syntactic construct?
      - yepguy 8y ago
        No I'm not saying that, not sure why you made that leap.
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        Well, you said that people don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to them by, and the reason that people can do this with names but not pronouns is because pronouns are a syntactic construct. Thus, when people misgendered me as a child because they mistook me for a girl, it seems to follow that you're asserting that I shouldn't have corrected them because a pronoun is a syntactic construct and I don't get to choose what pronoun they use to refer to me by, regardless of how I personally identify. I can correct them if they mispronounce my name, but not if they mistake me for a girl. If that's not what you're saying, then I guess I don't understand your position.
        yepguy 8y ago
        I was just spitballing, I'm not committing to any hard and fast rule here. Someone referred to you with the wrong gender because they mistook you for a girl, and probably appreciated the correction. This is way different than the transgender case in that no deep-seated & conflicting beliefs came into play. Language is deep-seated, syntax more than names. Beliefs about gender are also obviously deep-seated. I would say that I'm undecided on transgender issues, so mostly my position is that you shouldn't assume that skepticism is equivalent to bigotry.

"Let people choose their own words to describe themselves." How is that PC? How is that not common courtesy??

by Frondo 8y ago

"Let people choose their own words to describe themselves." How is that PC? How is that not common courtesy??

"organizing their own mind and behavior around somebody else's issues." Its very personal. Compound this with, the words seem silly and contrived. How about you address me as "Mr. Oingy Boingy" from now on. To get a flavor of the emotional content of language. Just as an example; choose your own. Let me be more helpful and less obtuse. Language is an emotional issue, so yes folks become pedantic and argumentative. That route (arguing) is unlikely to get a favorable response. What will work then? Empathizing, suggesting ways to help folks who are sensitive and understand their point of view. Things like that. I understand the frustration that comes with failure to convince, particularly when its a point that seem obvious and simple. I apologize for vectoring off with unhelpful comments about trolling. I'll try to understand the issue better in future. See? That was easy and didn't cost me anything. I'll take my own advice more in future.

yepguy 8y ago

It's special treatment rather than common courtesy. I don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to me by, and neither does anyone else I know. I would only be offended by someone misgendering me if it were clearly meant as an insult. If someone sincerely believes that people cannot choose their own gender, then it's not very clear to me that misgendering a trans person is disrespectful, rather than an honest indication of differing views on a single social issue.

CocaKoala 8y ago
> I don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to me by, and neither does anyone else I know. Why not? People do similar things all the time. If I introduced my friend Richard to you and he said "Please, call me Rich", would you say "Sorry buddy, no can do; Richard is your name, and that's what I have to call you"? Why are pronouns so special compared to names?
- yepguy 8y ago
  I didn't choose my own name or nickname either, but I take your point that some people do. I guess I would say that pronouns are primarily syntactic constructs while proper nouns are not.
  - CocaKoala 8y ago
    When I was younger, I had fairly long hair. I've always been kind of a scrawny person with a fairly neutral face, so if you didn't look closely it was pretty easy to mistake me for a girl. If somebody mistook me for a girl and referred to me as "she" or "her", I would correct them. Are you saying that I didn't have the right to do that, because a pronoun is a syntactic construct?
    - yepguy 8y ago
      No I'm not saying that, not sure why you made that leap.
      - CocaKoala 8y ago
        Well, you said that people don't get to choose the pronouns that other people refer to them by, and the reason that people can do this with names but not pronouns is because pronouns are a syntactic construct. Thus, when people misgendered me as a child because they mistook me for a girl, it seems to follow that you're asserting that I shouldn't have corrected them because a pronoun is a syntactic construct and I don't get to choose what pronoun they use to refer to me by, regardless of how I personally identify. I can correct them if they mispronounce my name, but not if they mistake me for a girl. If that's not what you're saying, then I guess I don't understand your position.
        yepguy 8y ago
        I was just spitballing, I'm not committing to any hard and fast rule here. Someone referred to you with the wrong gender because they mistook you for a girl, and probably appreciated the correction. This is way different than the transgender case in that no deep-seated & conflicting beliefs came into play. Language is deep-seated, syntax more than names. Beliefs about gender are also obviously deep-seated. I would say that I'm undecided on transgender issues, so mostly my position is that you shouldn't assume that skepticism is equivalent to bigotry.