4 ms·

I wonder how good the disguise "technology" is that they won't disclose in a public YouTube video. I don't know why you'd want to disguise yourself as the oppo

I wonder how good the disguise "technology" is that they won't disclose in a public YouTube video. I don't know why you'd want to disguise yourself as the opposite gender unless you could pull off the voice, your cover would be blown almost immediately. I still don't place any stock in intelligence operatives working in embassies, I can only imagine it works because intelligence agencies aren't sophisticated enough yet. You have a (relatively) small group of staff, and you know a portion of them are spies. Many "official covers" are extremely weak.

nkrisc 8y ago
> I don't know why you'd want to disguise yourself as the opposite gender unless you could pull off the voice, your cover would be blown almost immediately. Only if you speak. The solution then, if this were for some reason necessary, is "don't speak."
- Kaveren 8y ago
  Relying on not having to speak is extremely sub-optimal. I'm not sure how many situations you can get in that you have both the time required as well as the need to disguise yourself as someone of the opposite gender. You could pretend to be mute, of course, but this can attract more attention in certain scenarios.
- exelius 8y ago
  You can train your voice to speak convincingly like a female. Transgender women do this all the time. The training does not take that long (a few months) and would be good for disguising your voice in a number of ways, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did this.
  - collyw 8y ago
    In my limited experience they aren't that convincing.
    - superflyguy 8y ago
      I'm probably missing something here but how are you confident that you're not failing to identify the ones who are convincing?
      - smhost 8y ago
        a semi-related question, can people with training in music recognize the difference between a sopranist and a soprano? because as a layperson i really can't.
      - gowld 8y ago
        It doesn't matter if a few are good at convincing, as long as most are unconvincing. Unless the people who are good at voice conversion are the same people who have done body shape modification aand wardrobe modification and are opposite the people who openly admit about their transness, it's easy to estimate what fraction of trans people are good at changing their voice.
        superflyguy 8y ago
        Well this conversation was about spies and I doubt it is very important what percentage of trainee spies eventually pass.
      - collyw 8y ago
        I used to work at a place where there were a lot of transgender prostitutes outside in the evenings. They would proposition me as I walked by (as well as flash their parts at me sometimes). Some were pretty convincing regarding looks but when they spoke you could tell. (I said "limited experience", but I suppose I probably have a fair bit more experience than most people).
        exelius 8y ago
        Prostitutes likely wouldn’t have access to the tools and care needed to make their voice sound good. But ultimately, most trans women are not prostitutes. I know a trans woman who is an executive at a major tech company and you would not even suspect her unless you dove into her LinkedIn profile and googled some of the trans charities she’s involved with.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
bfuller 8y ago
Silicone prosthetics are nearly perfect disguises. And if you pull off a female illusion well, youd be surprised that most people wouldnt think twice about your voice.
- carlmr 8y ago
  I agree, a lot of it is about the complete package, how you walk, how you stand, which emotions you show overtly, how you dress. There are plenty of women with very deep voices and you still accept them as women. You just don't notice because you don't hear the voice in isolation.
- leephillips 8y ago
  The speaker in the video claims that they can turn a woman into a man but that it's nearly impossible to turn a man into a woman. In other words, according to her, there is no way to "pull off a female illusion well".
  - ataturk 8y ago
    Joan of Arc.
  - bfuller 8y ago
    Nearly impossible, sure. But not impossible. There are professional female illusionists you can look up to see the amount of preparation and effort it takes to pull off.
- samstave 8y ago
  Wouldnt it be trivial to use heat detection laser thermometers to determine that a facial prosthetic is being used. Or simply thermal imaging.
matty_makes 8y ago
The hosting country, like Russia, knows they are spies and puts surveillance teams on them 24/7. The spy's (aka CIA Officer) job is to make sure their agents (the host country people they are gathering intelligence from) will not be discovered because in worst case that may mean death for the agent. I've read a few memoirs from CIA officers and typically they are doing a very well planned surveillance detection route (SDR) to ferret out who is following them. If they are headed to a clandestine meet, the plan could include disguises and specific parts of the route where they can lose the surveillance team. Then they can meet freely with their agent. The sophistication isn't about technology of disguise, it is more about using a combination of the techniques described in the video and well honed skills.
- Kaveren 8y ago
  I am just saying, if I am an asset, I do not want to be handled by someone under official cover. I'm sure they take all manner of measures to stay safe, but imagine how much safer it could be when you don't know the handler is in a group of a few hundred suspected spies. I'm sure that's more difficult though. By "technology" I meant quality of the masks if they even bother with them. It seems silicone masks are very good. I wonder if surveillance cameras are able to tell if a person is wearing one.
  - rl3 8y ago
    >It seems silicone masks are very good. I wonder if surveillance cameras are able to tell if a person is wearing one. One would think IR imaging would bust masks pretty quick due to differences in thermal characteristics from normal skin.
Theodores 8y ago
They didn't reveal my secret disguise so I do wonder. My 'secret disguise' is truly ingenious. I am a cyclist and I can transform into a regular pedestrian without anyone being suspicious. In 'cyclist mode' the trick is to wear an extremely hi-viz jacket and to cycle at an unexceptional speed, taking short cuts through parks and along canal tow-paths. Those pesky Americans in their cars with access to every CCTV will never catch me that way. I can stop at any time and just get off the road, maybe to 'have a drink' or maybe to change my outfit as I could be 'too hot or cold'. The helmet, sunglasses and face mask makes it hard for facial recognition to work, yet I am not 'in disguise' as per the flaky accessories shown in this video. Of course I have a fleet of bicycles, including a folding bike that can be taken on public transport as well as wheeled into buildings. This and other bikes in the fleet can be abandoned as needed. It goes without saying that if I do encounter trouble then that D-lock and accompanying chain is there if I need it. I would prefer not to be nicked for grievous bodily harm so I am more likely to step up the pace and take flight rather than fight. Again, due to the special nature of being a 'cyclist' I can jump every light with impunity whereas those men in black can't quite do that. I can also have a full change of clothes in my bag, again this is legit due to the bicycle. I don't even need to leave fingerprints. Plus a tracking device is quite hard to place on a bicycle without the added weight being noticed. What is also pretty good is that the bicycle gets me to places in time. There are no traffic delays or train problems. The tools that go with the bike are pretty good too. I can carry all that is needed to break and enter into a building if that was needed (which it isn't). Anyone else carrying a knife or an adjustable wrench has some explaining to do if they get stopped and searched. The bag on my back also does a good job of stopping small arms from damaging my vital organs, not that getting shot is a problem outside the U.S. and occupied territories. It all comes with plausible deniability. I can navigate by landmarks too. Even better this 'stealth cycling' mode of getting around is not worthy of Hollywood. Some guy bumbling along cycle paths is way too boring for the movies so my secret disguise is always going to work.
- ataturk 8y ago
  I've lived 45 years in the US, getting shot has never been an issue because I don't sell illegal drugs.
clubm8 8y ago
>* I wonder how good the disguise "technology" is that they won't disclose in a public YouTube video.* The impression I got of government tech from the Snowden leaks was "script kiddies at scale". I don't think their technology is "better" but they may have unique abilities by virtue of access to large databases such as DMV/passport photo DBs. Or they can do things like get a court order compelling $COMPANY to pipe any publicly posted profile photo to them with the reasoning it was publicly posted and thus has no expectation of privacy. Other things at scale like that.

nkrisc 8y ago

> I don't know why you'd want to disguise yourself as the opposite gender unless you could pull off the voice, your cover would be blown almost immediately. Only if you speak. The solution then, if this were for some reason necessary, is "don't speak."

Kaveren 8y ago
Relying on not having to speak is extremely sub-optimal. I'm not sure how many situations you can get in that you have both the time required as well as the need to disguise yourself as someone of the opposite gender. You could pretend to be mute, of course, but this can attract more attention in certain scenarios.
exelius 8y ago
You can train your voice to speak convincingly like a female. Transgender women do this all the time. The training does not take that long (a few months) and would be good for disguising your voice in a number of ways, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did this.
- collyw 8y ago
  In my limited experience they aren't that convincing.
  - superflyguy 8y ago
    I'm probably missing something here but how are you confident that you're not failing to identify the ones who are convincing?
    - smhost 8y ago
      a semi-related question, can people with training in music recognize the difference between a sopranist and a soprano? because as a layperson i really can't.
    - gowld 8y ago
      It doesn't matter if a few are good at convincing, as long as most are unconvincing. Unless the people who are good at voice conversion are the same people who have done body shape modification aand wardrobe modification and are opposite the people who openly admit about their transness, it's easy to estimate what fraction of trans people are good at changing their voice.
      - superflyguy 8y ago
        Well this conversation was about spies and I doubt it is very important what percentage of trainee spies eventually pass.
    - collyw 8y ago
      I used to work at a place where there were a lot of transgender prostitutes outside in the evenings. They would proposition me as I walked by (as well as flash their parts at me sometimes). Some were pretty convincing regarding looks but when they spoke you could tell. (I said "limited experience", but I suppose I probably have a fair bit more experience than most people).
      - exelius 8y ago
        Prostitutes likely wouldn’t have access to the tools and care needed to make their voice sound good. But ultimately, most trans women are not prostitutes. I know a trans woman who is an executive at a major tech company and you would not even suspect her unless you dove into her LinkedIn profile and googled some of the trans charities she’s involved with.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

bfuller 8y ago

Silicone prosthetics are nearly perfect disguises. And if you pull off a female illusion well, youd be surprised that most people wouldnt think twice about your voice.

carlmr 8y ago
I agree, a lot of it is about the complete package, how you walk, how you stand, which emotions you show overtly, how you dress. There are plenty of women with very deep voices and you still accept them as women. You just don't notice because you don't hear the voice in isolation.
leephillips 8y ago
The speaker in the video claims that they can turn a woman into a man but that it's nearly impossible to turn a man into a woman. In other words, according to her, there is no way to "pull off a female illusion well".
- ataturk 8y ago
  Joan of Arc.
- bfuller 8y ago
  Nearly impossible, sure. But not impossible. There are professional female illusionists you can look up to see the amount of preparation and effort it takes to pull off.
samstave 8y ago
Wouldnt it be trivial to use heat detection laser thermometers to determine that a facial prosthetic is being used. Or simply thermal imaging.

matty_makes 8y ago

The hosting country, like Russia, knows they are spies and puts surveillance teams on them 24/7. The spy's (aka CIA Officer) job is to make sure their agents (the host country people they are gathering intelligence from) will not be discovered because in worst case that may mean death for the agent. I've read a few memoirs from CIA officers and typically they are doing a very well planned surveillance detection route (SDR) to ferret out who is following them. If they are headed to a clandestine meet, the plan could include disguises and specific parts of the route where they can lose the surveillance team. Then they can meet freely with their agent. The sophistication isn't about technology of disguise, it is more about using a combination of the techniques described in the video and well honed skills.

Kaveren 8y ago
I am just saying, if I am an asset, I do not want to be handled by someone under official cover. I'm sure they take all manner of measures to stay safe, but imagine how much safer it could be when you don't know the handler is in a group of a few hundred suspected spies. I'm sure that's more difficult though. By "technology" I meant quality of the masks if they even bother with them. It seems silicone masks are very good. I wonder if surveillance cameras are able to tell if a person is wearing one.
- rl3 8y ago
  >It seems silicone masks are very good. I wonder if surveillance cameras are able to tell if a person is wearing one. One would think IR imaging would bust masks pretty quick due to differences in thermal characteristics from normal skin.

Theodores 8y ago

They didn't reveal my secret disguise so I do wonder. My 'secret disguise' is truly ingenious. I am a cyclist and I can transform into a regular pedestrian without anyone being suspicious. In 'cyclist mode' the trick is to wear an extremely hi-viz jacket and to cycle at an unexceptional speed, taking short cuts through parks and along canal tow-paths. Those pesky Americans in their cars with access to every CCTV will never catch me that way. I can stop at any time and just get off the road, maybe to 'have a drink' or maybe to change my outfit as I could be 'too hot or cold'. The helmet, sunglasses and face mask makes it hard for facial recognition to work, yet I am not 'in disguise' as per the flaky accessories shown in this video. Of course I have a fleet of bicycles, including a folding bike that can be taken on public transport as well as wheeled into buildings. This and other bikes in the fleet can be abandoned as needed. It goes without saying that if I do encounter trouble then that D-lock and accompanying chain is there if I need it. I would prefer not to be nicked for grievous bodily harm so I am more likely to step up the pace and take flight rather than fight. Again, due to the special nature of being a 'cyclist' I can jump every light with impunity whereas those men in black can't quite do that. I can also have a full change of clothes in my bag, again this is legit due to the bicycle. I don't even need to leave fingerprints. Plus a tracking device is quite hard to place on a bicycle without the added weight being noticed. What is also pretty good is that the bicycle gets me to places in time. There are no traffic delays or train problems. The tools that go with the bike are pretty good too. I can carry all that is needed to break and enter into a building if that was needed (which it isn't). Anyone else carrying a knife or an adjustable wrench has some explaining to do if they get stopped and searched. The bag on my back also does a good job of stopping small arms from damaging my vital organs, not that getting shot is a problem outside the U.S. and occupied territories. It all comes with plausible deniability. I can navigate by landmarks too. Even better this 'stealth cycling' mode of getting around is not worthy of Hollywood. Some guy bumbling along cycle paths is way too boring for the movies so my secret disguise is always going to work.

ataturk 8y ago
I've lived 45 years in the US, getting shot has never been an issue because I don't sell illegal drugs.

clubm8 8y ago

>* I wonder how good the disguise "technology" is that they won't disclose in a public YouTube video.* The impression I got of government tech from the Snowden leaks was "script kiddies at scale". I don't think their technology is "better" but they may have unique abilities by virtue of access to large databases such as DMV/passport photo DBs. Or they can do things like get a court order compelling $COMPANY to pipe any publicly posted profile photo to them with the reasoning it was publicly posted and thus has no expectation of privacy. Other things at scale like that.