4 ms·

This use of data seems reasonable if the company is truly following the constraints described. The way I read it fever rates were sold to advertisers with zip c

This use of data seems reasonable if the company is truly following the constraints described. The way I read it fever rates were sold to advertisers with zip code granularity. Advertisers could then target markets, but not individuals. It doesn't sound like users would experience creepy invasions of privacy like "I took my temperature and then every website I visited had a NyQuil ad." Instead, there would generally be more ads in one city versus another.

kop316 8y ago
It would be interesting to read their privacy policy, and then note if it has something like: "We reserve the right to change the terms of this agreement at any time and only have to provide you notice." That way, before the product is big, they can make those claims, but as soon as it has an entrenched niche, they can do the privacy bait and switch and collect all they want.
- quux 8y ago
  Looks like they can do exactly that: By using this Site or Application, you consent to the use of information that you provide to us in accordance with this Privacy Policy. We do update this Privacy Policy from time to time so please review this Privacy Policy regularly. If we materially alter our Privacy Policy, we will notify you of such changes by contacting you through your user account or by posting a notice on our Site or in the Application. Your continued use of the Site or Application will be deemed your agreement that your information may be used in accordance with the new policy. If you do not agree with the changes, then you should stop using the Site or Application, and you should notify us that you do not want your information used in accordance with the changes. https://www.kinsahealth.com/privacy https://www.kinsahealth.com/privacy
  - kop316 8y ago
    "If you do not agree with the changes, then you should stop using the Site or Application, and you should notify us that you do not want your information used in accordance with the changes." I interpret that to mean "If you don't like what we are doing now, your device is a brick, too bad." I wonder if there is a legal way to fight back at that.
- mancerayder 8y ago
  How is it enforceable to have a contract that says in it, "this contract can completely change." Well, if the damn contract changes, don't you need a new contract? If a landlord and a tenant together sign a contract about leasing a residential space, in almost any Common Law jurisdiction at least, and a landlord puts something to the effect of, "the rental price can change at any time and without notice for the duration of this Agreement," well it's an unenforceable clause. A judge would come down hard on the landlord for this, even if the tenant were being sued for an unrelated reason, because it violates the law. Now, why can't such laws be passed to squeeze TOCs to the same effect? Get out of here with, "The Terms of this Agreement can change at any time." Such a set of Terms is completely absurd.
  - kop316 8y ago
    On a theoretical level, I agree with you, it is completely absurd. But look at the other reply, their terms of service say just that. Even more so, that has been done many of other times. Take Apple https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ "Apple may update its Privacy Policy from time to time. When we change the policy in a material way, a notice will be posted on our website along with the updated Privacy Policy." > Now, why can't such laws be passed to squeeze TOCs to the same effect? I implied it in another comment, but I would love to see a law that "freezes" a term of agreement and makes it impossible for one side to say "agree or be locked out".
Maarten88 8y ago
> This use of data seems reasonable Really? What if someone who bought this "smart thermometer" no longer wants to share this information? What if this data concerns a child? What if, somewhere in the future, this business gets into financial problems, or gets bought, and decides to stretch its morals a bit and sell this data non-anonymously? I think this is a very slippery slope. It seems reasonable now, until it's not.
- Illniyar 8y ago
  Why is a child having a fever different from an adult having a fever? This isn't pornography or gambling.
  - Maarten88 8y ago
    > This isn't pornography or gambling It's much worse: it's health data. It shows how often and when you were ill. Employers may want to check that before hiring you. Insurers might want to use this data to decide on eligibility and calculate your premium. Or that, but in the future for your child, who never had a choice...

kop316 8y ago

It would be interesting to read their privacy policy, and then note if it has something like: "We reserve the right to change the terms of this agreement at any time and only have to provide you notice." That way, before the product is big, they can make those claims, but as soon as it has an entrenched niche, they can do the privacy bait and switch and collect all they want.

quux 8y ago
Looks like they can do exactly that: By using this Site or Application, you consent to the use of information that you provide to us in accordance with this Privacy Policy. We do update this Privacy Policy from time to time so please review this Privacy Policy regularly. If we materially alter our Privacy Policy, we will notify you of such changes by contacting you through your user account or by posting a notice on our Site or in the Application. Your continued use of the Site or Application will be deemed your agreement that your information may be used in accordance with the new policy. If you do not agree with the changes, then you should stop using the Site or Application, and you should notify us that you do not want your information used in accordance with the changes. https://www.kinsahealth.com/privacy https://www.kinsahealth.com/privacy
- kop316 8y ago
  "If you do not agree with the changes, then you should stop using the Site or Application, and you should notify us that you do not want your information used in accordance with the changes." I interpret that to mean "If you don't like what we are doing now, your device is a brick, too bad." I wonder if there is a legal way to fight back at that.
mancerayder 8y ago
How is it enforceable to have a contract that says in it, "this contract can completely change." Well, if the damn contract changes, don't you need a new contract? If a landlord and a tenant together sign a contract about leasing a residential space, in almost any Common Law jurisdiction at least, and a landlord puts something to the effect of, "the rental price can change at any time and without notice for the duration of this Agreement," well it's an unenforceable clause. A judge would come down hard on the landlord for this, even if the tenant were being sued for an unrelated reason, because it violates the law. Now, why can't such laws be passed to squeeze TOCs to the same effect? Get out of here with, "The Terms of this Agreement can change at any time." Such a set of Terms is completely absurd.
- kop316 8y ago
  On a theoretical level, I agree with you, it is completely absurd. But look at the other reply, their terms of service say just that. Even more so, that has been done many of other times. Take Apple https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ "Apple may update its Privacy Policy from time to time. When we change the policy in a material way, a notice will be posted on our website along with the updated Privacy Policy." > Now, why can't such laws be passed to squeeze TOCs to the same effect? I implied it in another comment, but I would love to see a law that "freezes" a term of agreement and makes it impossible for one side to say "agree or be locked out".

Maarten88 8y ago

> This use of data seems reasonable Really? What if someone who bought this "smart thermometer" no longer wants to share this information? What if this data concerns a child? What if, somewhere in the future, this business gets into financial problems, or gets bought, and decides to stretch its morals a bit and sell this data non-anonymously? I think this is a very slippery slope. It seems reasonable now, until it's not.

Illniyar 8y ago
Why is a child having a fever different from an adult having a fever? This isn't pornography or gambling.
- Maarten88 8y ago
  > This isn't pornography or gambling It's much worse: it's health data. It shows how often and when you were ill. Employers may want to check that before hiring you. Insurers might want to use this data to decide on eligibility and calculate your premium. Or that, but in the future for your child, who never had a choice...