5 ms·

Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 too little, too late

21 points by kqr2 16y ago

DjDarkman 16y ago
I found the UI unappealing and the heavy use of rotation effects amateurish. Is this the best they can do? Draw rectangles... Vertical list of applications??? Microsoft what have you been smoking? And sorry but I just can't shake the feeling that the UI looks like some half-baked demo. Microsoft should have just copied the iPhone and Android, they would have had a lot more success.
- karterk 16y ago
  If they had done that, I am sure you would have commented here saying it looks like a cheap imitation. Have you actually used the phone?
  - bad_user 16y ago
    That's my problem with Microsoft software ... they get hyped months or years in advance with nobody actually using the damn product. And when a product is hyped, you've got to expect a backslash when it doesn't support basic functionality people got accustomed to. I also think that if third-party integration like Twitter will be less than what Facebook got ... WinMo 7 is basically screwed.
    - steverb 16y ago
      My understanding is that any app can register itself for any of the hubs, so I don't see any technical reason why a twitter app can't go in the people hub. No clue whose over-sight it is that the twitter app isn't already there.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > they get hyped months or years in advance Remember how cool was WinFS?
  - DjDarkman 16y ago
    There are stuff that these OS-es got right, and there is no known better way. Not doing the same just for the sake of not being called a copycat is a stupid thing to do. The perfect counter argument for these is: "that's what people were used to" This all only holds up if there is no known better way.
  - netcan 16y ago
    Cheap imitation used to be an MS strength. A $200equivalent of the iphone V1 would be welcome.
- PanMan 16y ago
  I think it's actually quite cool that Microsoft invented a new UI, instead of copying iPhone/Android. I haven't played with it yet, so I haven't seen the result, but I like that they are trying to do something new, instead of copying others.
karterk 16y ago
Too early to write them off too.
akadien 16y ago
This may give RIM some competition in the mobile enterprise space.
- pilif 16y ago
  really? Isn't all the PR about WP7 really focussed on the consumer? You don't read at all about the enterprise features (does it even have any?), but all is full of Facebook, media sharing and stuff.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I think he meant it as competing for the third place. I know RIM still sells a lot of smartphones, but it seems reasonably obvious it won't recover ground once it's lost to iPhone and Android.
  - ghurlman 16y ago
    Office hub, SharePoint integration - yes, there's plenty there in the enterprise space. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a way to extend Active Directory group policy to the devices already, or in the next update or 2.
josephcooney 16y ago
Even if Windows Phone 7 is not significantly better than the iPhone and Android competition is a good thing, right? I've played with a device in store and it seems OK-to-good in comparison to my iPhone 4 (which is quite good). I think consumers will be better off if Windows Phone 7 is a credible phone platform, regardless of whether they actually ever use it because it will keep iPhone and Android improving.
- melling 16y ago
  There is still Blackberry, webOS, and Nokia. Already lots of competition. Adding Microsoft doesn't hurt but it's probably not helping much at this point. Also, I think Apple and Google know they need to improve, regardless of the competition. They are both strong players vying to be the #1 in smart phones.
pilif 16y ago
What really concerns me about Windows Mobile 7 is the damage it's going to do among mobile web applications. You see, right now, if you want to do a mobile webapp, you can live in HTML5 land with working scripting, working DOM, good CSS3-support and all other goodies. Sure, there are differences between mobile browsers, but all major platforms are now using webkit of some sort (and for those that don't, Fennec is available which also works really well), so that's a solid foundation to build upon. And now WP7 arrives, brining us not IE9, not IE8, but IE7 (which by now is 4 years old already) in all its glory. Up until today, you could get away by just ignoring WM6 and pointing the rare user of that platform to Opera Mobile, but now, there's no more Opera Mobile and the platform is about to get a lot more popular, so your app better works in IE7 too. This means to either provide two versions of your app, or go back to what we have to do on the desktop too, which is progressive enhancement which sometimes can really destroy the quality of your code and will, again, costs hours upon hours of wasted effort (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828586 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828586). Thanks Microsoft. Much appreciated.
- robin_reala 16y ago
  We can only hope that either: a) they release an OS update soon next year with an IE9 rendering engine b) no-one buys the product I actually suspect that both are likely, at least in Europe.
  - pilif 16y ago
    rooting for b) myself, but I can't post that here on HN, can I? That's not constructive at all.
    - brk 16y ago
      It's a grey area, I think. There is little reason to support a platform that appears to break common-sense web apps. To take it to an extreme, would everyone be expected to support (or remain silent about) a new mobile platform that only supported gopher:// ?
  - rbanffy 16y ago
Mrcurious 16y ago
I have played with the samsung device for a week now and I hope people give the platform a chance. The ui and overall performance is higher than the captivate. The ui is innovative and lean. The platform needs apps. I think there will be some interesting opportunities for developers right out of the gate. Keep in mind that ms is giving their employees a free winphone after launch. Building apps that appeal to developers/technoratti may be a good way to bring in a few extra bucks this fall.
forgottenpaswrd 16y ago
It seems like an interesting phone, and with all the money MS has they are going to buy a lot of partnerships, marketting deals with it. A lot of people could buy this thing and more important, will be used as an experiment for the desktop. I don't like it, through, I think the interface is so ugly(like the zune external design), and the proof that MS guys had become lazy bastards that just care about making stuff fast. Who knows, maybe people don't care about detail.

21 points by kqr2 16y ago

I found the UI unappealing and the heavy use of rotation effects amateurish. Is this the best they can do? Draw rectangles... Vertical list of applications??? Microsoft what have you been smoking? And sorry but I just can't shake the feeling that the UI looks like some half-baked demo. Microsoft should have just copied the iPhone and Android, they would have had a lot more success.

karterk 16y ago
If they had done that, I am sure you would have commented here saying it looks like a cheap imitation. Have you actually used the phone?
- bad_user 16y ago
  That's my problem with Microsoft software ... they get hyped months or years in advance with nobody actually using the damn product. And when a product is hyped, you've got to expect a backslash when it doesn't support basic functionality people got accustomed to. I also think that if third-party integration like Twitter will be less than what Facebook got ... WinMo 7 is basically screwed.
  - steverb 16y ago
    My understanding is that any app can register itself for any of the hubs, so I don't see any technical reason why a twitter app can't go in the people hub. No clue whose over-sight it is that the twitter app isn't already there.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > they get hyped months or years in advance Remember how cool was WinFS?
- DjDarkman 16y ago
  There are stuff that these OS-es got right, and there is no known better way. Not doing the same just for the sake of not being called a copycat is a stupid thing to do. The perfect counter argument for these is: "that's what people were used to" This all only holds up if there is no known better way.
- netcan 16y ago
  Cheap imitation used to be an MS strength. A $200equivalent of the iphone V1 would be welcome.
PanMan 16y ago
I think it's actually quite cool that Microsoft invented a new UI, instead of copying iPhone/Android. I haven't played with it yet, so I haven't seen the result, but I like that they are trying to do something new, instead of copying others.

karterk 16y ago

Too early to write them off too.

akadien 16y ago

This may give RIM some competition in the mobile enterprise space.

pilif 16y ago
really? Isn't all the PR about WP7 really focussed on the consumer? You don't read at all about the enterprise features (does it even have any?), but all is full of Facebook, media sharing and stuff.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  I think he meant it as competing for the third place. I know RIM still sells a lot of smartphones, but it seems reasonably obvious it won't recover ground once it's lost to iPhone and Android.
- ghurlman 16y ago
  Office hub, SharePoint integration - yes, there's plenty there in the enterprise space. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a way to extend Active Directory group policy to the devices already, or in the next update or 2.

josephcooney 16y ago

Even if Windows Phone 7 is not significantly better than the iPhone and Android competition is a good thing, right? I've played with a device in store and it seems OK-to-good in comparison to my iPhone 4 (which is quite good). I think consumers will be better off if Windows Phone 7 is a credible phone platform, regardless of whether they actually ever use it because it will keep iPhone and Android improving.

melling 16y ago
There is still Blackberry, webOS, and Nokia. Already lots of competition. Adding Microsoft doesn't hurt but it's probably not helping much at this point. Also, I think Apple and Google know they need to improve, regardless of the competition. They are both strong players vying to be the #1 in smart phones.

pilif 16y ago

What really concerns me about Windows Mobile 7 is the damage it's going to do among mobile web applications. You see, right now, if you want to do a mobile webapp, you can live in HTML5 land with working scripting, working DOM, good CSS3-support and all other goodies. Sure, there are differences between mobile browsers, but all major platforms are now using webkit of some sort (and for those that don't, Fennec is available which also works really well), so that's a solid foundation to build upon. And now WP7 arrives, brining us not IE9, not IE8, but IE7 (which by now is 4 years old already) in all its glory. Up until today, you could get away by just ignoring WM6 and pointing the rare user of that platform to Opera Mobile, but now, there's no more Opera Mobile and the platform is about to get a lot more popular, so your app better works in IE7 too. This means to either provide two versions of your app, or go back to what we have to do on the desktop too, which is progressive enhancement which sometimes can really destroy the quality of your code and will, again, costs hours upon hours of wasted effort (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828586 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828586). Thanks Microsoft. Much appreciated.

robin_reala 16y ago
We can only hope that either: a) they release an OS update soon next year with an IE9 rendering engine b) no-one buys the product I actually suspect that both are likely, at least in Europe.
- pilif 16y ago
  rooting for b) myself, but I can't post that here on HN, can I? That's not constructive at all.
  - brk 16y ago
    It's a grey area, I think. There is little reason to support a platform that appears to break common-sense web apps. To take it to an extreme, would everyone be expected to support (or remain silent about) a new mobile platform that only supported gopher:// ?
- rbanffy 16y ago

Mrcurious 16y ago

I have played with the samsung device for a week now and I hope people give the platform a chance. The ui and overall performance is higher than the captivate. The ui is innovative and lean. The platform needs apps. I think there will be some interesting opportunities for developers right out of the gate. Keep in mind that ms is giving their employees a free winphone after launch. Building apps that appeal to developers/technoratti may be a good way to bring in a few extra bucks this fall.

forgottenpaswrd 16y ago

It seems like an interesting phone, and with all the money MS has they are going to buy a lot of partnerships, marketting deals with it. A lot of people could buy this thing and more important, will be used as an experiment for the desktop. I don't like it, through, I think the interface is so ugly(like the zune external design), and the proof that MS guys had become lazy bastards that just care about making stuff fast. Who knows, maybe people don't care about detail.