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Personal information is extremely valuable. I don't understand why people are opposed to collecting and making use of it. Not doing so would be inefficient and

Personal information is extremely valuable. I don't understand why people are opposed to collecting and making use of it. Not doing so would be inefficient and foolish. While I believe that those who collect such data would make the world a better place if they freely distributed it, I don't think they should be forced to. I'm sure that whatever hypothetical problem that could result from such collection of data could be solved more efficiently in a different way.

__m 8y ago
Probably because of the word “personal”
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  Personal information is information about a person. We already collect information about things. Why not collect information about people, which are arguably more interesting?
  - doctorstupid 8y ago
    Why don't you start the trend now? Please post here your personal details.
  - nosuchthing 8y ago
    Many people enjoy privacy. If your children were followed around with someone recording them with a personal video recorder as soon as they left their house, that’s just public information right? /s
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      While I agree with the sentiment and am also strongly against this mass surveillance, I don't think that a "please think of the children" argument helps our case here.
  - ognarb 8y ago
    Because person aren't things
AdamJacobMuller 8y ago
Because I value my privacy. That said, I do think people should not be surprised that when they reveal pieces of information to a company that that information is used by that company in ways that they don't 100% agree with. If you give up information, you're giving up (some amount) of control over how that information is used.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  I don't think that's true, I expect to be told up front, clearly and unambiguously, the true cost of something. Stores that have hidden charges and gotchas are reviled, just like we should be outraged by websites that sell your data without your explicit consent. It's a bait and switch con.
  - AdamJacobMuller 8y ago
    I don't think you should be surprised because I think you should assume (as I do) that all information will be used in the maximally worst case way. Once you do that, you're never surprised.
  - compcoffee 8y ago
    >just like we should be outraged by websites that sell your data without your explicit consent. At least some of the onus is on you to be more discriminate with whom you share your data. As the sibling says, assume the worst. It's fun to expound about "how things should be" but sometimes you have to deal with "how things actually are".
simion314 8y ago
Edit: OP changed his comment, so my response is looking off-topic now Sure, please paste here your email and other accounts logins. Maybe you say you can't trust some random stranger on the internet but why would your trust companies, they have no morals, they want only to make money for themselves and on top of that they are incompetent and they can lose your data and random people on the internet will have it.
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >Sure, please paste here your email and other accounts logins. That is not privacy, it's security. Are you implying that Facebook and Google don't take security seriously?
  - nneonneo 8y ago
    Facebook sure doesn't seem to. 50,000,000 of their accounts were breached just last month, apparently by spammers intent on harvesting private account information. And Google supposedly shut down their Google+ service over a potential security bug that could have exposed a few hundred thousand accounts, but of course there were more reasons than that.
AsyncAwait 8y ago
> I don't understand why people are opposed to collecting and making use of it. Because: > Personal information is extremely valuable. The main problem isn't making use of personal information, but using it in such a way where it is not clear to the user as to what is being collected by whom, and what is the value they're getting back for that information. Moreover, is is extremely hard to know about and control leakage of that info to parties you didn't consent to directly.
9712263 8y ago
True, so can I get paid when I sell my information?
- teekert 8y ago
  You can get paid in the form of a free OS for your smartphone? Or free use of a video streaming platform?
  - simion314 8y ago
    >You can get paid in the form of a free OS for your smartphone? I paid full price for my phone, there was no warning or contract for me selling my data. I also do not remember a clear EULA about me selling or paying with my data, usually this EULAs are emphasizing that data is collected to give us better services not that is sold/shared with third parties.
    - akuji1993 8y ago
      > data is collected to give us better services Literally every company that steals your data and sells it, has this sentence in their data privacy terms.
      - sbuk 8y ago
        Prove it. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/privacy/en-ww/
        akuji1993 8y ago
        Ehm. I never said that Apple sells your data. No idea what your point is.
    - 9712263 8y ago
      Add to that, even Android is not so free. Google requires manufacturer to pay a premium to include Google Play Service, which is proprietary, and Android Support. This cost will be transfer to customer, so Android + Google Play bundle is not a free OS. It cost something, just not having a price tag to buy separately. It means I paid for Google Play Service to be included in Android and they also required me to pay by personal information to use their cloud, which is fine, but I don't have a choice to opt out, or choose to pay Google and not selling my data. The problem is the implicit contract with no opt out or alternative payment to respect my privacy.
ebullientocelot 8y ago
I don't believe that people are generally against the collection and use of personal information, per se. To me, the problem lies in a couple key areas, which coincide pretty well with Cook's statement: 1) No opt-out. Some companies and institutions are decent about this, but the overwhelming majority of companies who are collecting information about me I've never heard of and couldn't name. I'm not asked if tracking, etc. is okay, OR am presented with some dense glacier of legalese when my only interest is to read some article. 2) No transparency. Who has what information about me and how are they using it? I haven't the foggiest clue, if I'm being honest about it, and I'm a relatively technologically sophisticated and aware user. 3) No deletes. Even when a company offers to "delete your data", how can this be verified complete? It is difficult for me to trust a company or institution's word on this having so insidiously collected the data in the first place. Now, before you take issue with "insidiously", consider the information asymmetry present when an average person (non-lawyer/engineer superstar hybrid) signs up for FB or Gmail. There is definitely a sense in which it is clear that you aren't getting something for nothing, but at 16 that didn't occur to me, and now the damage is done. 4) What, precisely, is this data going to be used for? Creepy ads are one thing, and have been pervasive enough long enough that I think many folks see they as normal now. I don't like the advertising economy, and take steps to shield myself and my family from it to the degree that is possible within our inconvenience tolerances, but the scary thing about this data goes beyond shitty frothing-mouth marketing efforts. When the advertisers are done with it (hah!) it is still there, waiting to be exploited in a political, judicial, or military effort of some kind. Google "Sesame Credit" for info on China's bone-chilling weaponization of social media. And yes, I know, China isn't a beacon of human rights, that isn't the point. I suspect that if China can do this out in the open, there are closed doors in DC behind which a more subtle, similar effort is at least an on-again/off-again discussion. So no, I can't agree with you that "whatever hypothetical problem that could result from such collection of data could be solved more efficiently in a different way". I work at a 2nd tier retailer whose "Customer 360 Experience" is a surveillance program a lesser nation state would be envious of (I was very surprised to learn how much collection efforts have evolved for in brick and mortar stores). Once the data is collected, it's damned near impossible to "uncollect". Genies don't like to go back into their bottles.
- 8y ago

__m 8y ago

Probably because of the word “personal”

miguelrochefort 8y ago
Personal information is information about a person. We already collect information about things. Why not collect information about people, which are arguably more interesting?
- doctorstupid 8y ago
  Why don't you start the trend now? Please post here your personal details.
- nosuchthing 8y ago
  Many people enjoy privacy. If your children were followed around with someone recording them with a personal video recorder as soon as they left their house, that’s just public information right? /s
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    While I agree with the sentiment and am also strongly against this mass surveillance, I don't think that a "please think of the children" argument helps our case here.
- ognarb 8y ago
  Because person aren't things

AdamJacobMuller 8y ago

Because I value my privacy. That said, I do think people should not be surprised that when they reveal pieces of information to a company that that information is used by that company in ways that they don't 100% agree with. If you give up information, you're giving up (some amount) of control over how that information is used.

mattmanser 8y ago
I don't think that's true, I expect to be told up front, clearly and unambiguously, the true cost of something. Stores that have hidden charges and gotchas are reviled, just like we should be outraged by websites that sell your data without your explicit consent. It's a bait and switch con.
- AdamJacobMuller 8y ago
  I don't think you should be surprised because I think you should assume (as I do) that all information will be used in the maximally worst case way. Once you do that, you're never surprised.
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >just like we should be outraged by websites that sell your data without your explicit consent. At least some of the onus is on you to be more discriminate with whom you share your data. As the sibling says, assume the worst. It's fun to expound about "how things should be" but sometimes you have to deal with "how things actually are".

simion314 8y ago

Edit: OP changed his comment, so my response is looking off-topic now Sure, please paste here your email and other accounts logins. Maybe you say you can't trust some random stranger on the internet but why would your trust companies, they have no morals, they want only to make money for themselves and on top of that they are incompetent and they can lose your data and random people on the internet will have it.

compcoffee 8y ago
>Sure, please paste here your email and other accounts logins. That is not privacy, it's security. Are you implying that Facebook and Google don't take security seriously?
- nneonneo 8y ago
  Facebook sure doesn't seem to. 50,000,000 of their accounts were breached just last month, apparently by spammers intent on harvesting private account information. And Google supposedly shut down their Google+ service over a potential security bug that could have exposed a few hundred thousand accounts, but of course there were more reasons than that.

AsyncAwait 8y ago

> I don't understand why people are opposed to collecting and making use of it. Because: > Personal information is extremely valuable. The main problem isn't making use of personal information, but using it in such a way where it is not clear to the user as to what is being collected by whom, and what is the value they're getting back for that information. Moreover, is is extremely hard to know about and control leakage of that info to parties you didn't consent to directly.

9712263 8y ago

True, so can I get paid when I sell my information?

teekert 8y ago
You can get paid in the form of a free OS for your smartphone? Or free use of a video streaming platform?
- simion314 8y ago
  >You can get paid in the form of a free OS for your smartphone? I paid full price for my phone, there was no warning or contract for me selling my data. I also do not remember a clear EULA about me selling or paying with my data, usually this EULAs are emphasizing that data is collected to give us better services not that is sold/shared with third parties.
  - akuji1993 8y ago
    > data is collected to give us better services Literally every company that steals your data and sells it, has this sentence in their data privacy terms.
    - sbuk 8y ago
      Prove it. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/privacy/en-ww/
      - akuji1993 8y ago
        Ehm. I never said that Apple sells your data. No idea what your point is.
  - 9712263 8y ago
    Add to that, even Android is not so free. Google requires manufacturer to pay a premium to include Google Play Service, which is proprietary, and Android Support. This cost will be transfer to customer, so Android + Google Play bundle is not a free OS. It cost something, just not having a price tag to buy separately. It means I paid for Google Play Service to be included in Android and they also required me to pay by personal information to use their cloud, which is fine, but I don't have a choice to opt out, or choose to pay Google and not selling my data. The problem is the implicit contract with no opt out or alternative payment to respect my privacy.

ebullientocelot 8y ago

I don't believe that people are generally against the collection and use of personal information, per se. To me, the problem lies in a couple key areas, which coincide pretty well with Cook's statement: 1) No opt-out. Some companies and institutions are decent about this, but the overwhelming majority of companies who are collecting information about me I've never heard of and couldn't name. I'm not asked if tracking, etc. is okay, OR am presented with some dense glacier of legalese when my only interest is to read some article. 2) No transparency. Who has what information about me and how are they using it? I haven't the foggiest clue, if I'm being honest about it, and I'm a relatively technologically sophisticated and aware user. 3) No deletes. Even when a company offers to "delete your data", how can this be verified complete? It is difficult for me to trust a company or institution's word on this having so insidiously collected the data in the first place. Now, before you take issue with "insidiously", consider the information asymmetry present when an average person (non-lawyer/engineer superstar hybrid) signs up for FB or Gmail. There is definitely a sense in which it is clear that you aren't getting something for nothing, but at 16 that didn't occur to me, and now the damage is done. 4) What, precisely, is this data going to be used for? Creepy ads are one thing, and have been pervasive enough long enough that I think many folks see they as normal now. I don't like the advertising economy, and take steps to shield myself and my family from it to the degree that is possible within our inconvenience tolerances, but the scary thing about this data goes beyond shitty frothing-mouth marketing efforts. When the advertisers are done with it (hah!) it is still there, waiting to be exploited in a political, judicial, or military effort of some kind. Google "Sesame Credit" for info on China's bone-chilling weaponization of social media. And yes, I know, China isn't a beacon of human rights, that isn't the point. I suspect that if China can do this out in the open, there are closed doors in DC behind which a more subtle, similar effort is at least an on-again/off-again discussion. So no, I can't agree with you that "whatever hypothetical problem that could result from such collection of data could be solved more efficiently in a different way". I work at a 2nd tier retailer whose "Customer 360 Experience" is a surveillance program a lesser nation state would be envious of (I was very surprised to learn how much collection efforts have evolved for in brick and mortar stores). Once the data is collected, it's damned near impossible to "uncollect". Genies don't like to go back into their bottles.

8y ago