4 ms·

My core argument is that using technology to help curb CO2 emissions is a way to solve the problem that is something we can do, and that ideological solutions -

My core argument is that using technology to help curb CO2 emissions is a way to solve the problem that is something we can do, and that ideological solutions - let's rework our society or kill half the population - aren't as easy. To say that we should turn from a growth-based economy to a sustainable economy is much more difficult to create a plan of action for than to create a technological solution. Ideological solutions have their own stains on history as well, compared to technical solutions - Stalin, Mao, and Hitler all have something to say about that. There's no need to attack technical solutions as an epidemic on society. If you argued that society is an epidemic on society, that's a different story, but I would counter and say that there exist bad and good rich people, as well as bad and good technological outcomes, and bad and good ideological outcomes. To cherry pick the bad aspects is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

schiffern 8y ago
...assuming there is a technological solution. My core argument is that "endless growth = good" is an ideological problem, and it requires an ideological solution. Without changing the goal of the system, any tech solution will inevitable be used simply to enable more growth (see: Jevon's Paradox). Here's part of a talk by seminal systems theorist Donella Meadows, who explains it better than I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuIoego-xVc&t=13m55s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuIoego-xVc&t=13m55s >There's no need to attack technical solutions as an epidemic on society. We do need to be realistic about technology, including its downsides. I'm countering the one-sided perspective of technology as bloodless hard work & ingenuity. Perhaps true for the colonizer, but not the colonized.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  So in the end, we need both. We need technological solutions to undo the damage we've done to the climate. Trees won't sequeseter CO₂ fast enough by themselves. We need ideological solutions, so that people don't cancel the gains of technological solutions with increased growth and waste. And then we need political/economic solutions like carbon tax to redirect money towards technological solutions, and minds towards ideological and lifestyle ones. Really, we shouldn't be fighting over which kind of solution we need, because neither is sufficient in isolation. We need them all. Let's focus instead on fighting opposition to any and all effective solutions for saving people.
  - schiffern 8y ago
    Thank you, well said.

schiffern 8y ago

...assuming there is a technological solution. My core argument is that "endless growth = good" is an ideological problem, and it requires an ideological solution. Without changing the goal of the system, any tech solution will inevitable be used simply to enable more growth (see: Jevon's Paradox). Here's part of a talk by seminal systems theorist Donella Meadows, who explains it better than I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuIoego-xVc&t=13m55s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuIoego-xVc&t=13m55s >There's no need to attack technical solutions as an epidemic on society. We do need to be realistic about technology, including its downsides. I'm countering the one-sided perspective of technology as bloodless hard work & ingenuity. Perhaps true for the colonizer, but not the colonized.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
So in the end, we need both. We need technological solutions to undo the damage we've done to the climate. Trees won't sequeseter CO₂ fast enough by themselves. We need ideological solutions, so that people don't cancel the gains of technological solutions with increased growth and waste. And then we need political/economic solutions like carbon tax to redirect money towards technological solutions, and minds towards ideological and lifestyle ones. Really, we shouldn't be fighting over which kind of solution we need, because neither is sufficient in isolation. We need them all. Let's focus instead on fighting opposition to any and all effective solutions for saving people.
- schiffern 8y ago
  Thank you, well said.