4 ms·

I like the singular they; it can be easily integrated and isn't a radical change as "pers" or other similar neologisms. Anyone will understand what you mean, wh

I like the singular they; it can be easily integrated and isn't a radical change as "pers" or other similar neologisms. Anyone will understand what you mean, whereas they will have to look up the meaning of "pers". rms writes that this "violates the grammar of English so deeply that it feels terribly wrong"; I don't see how; the grammar of most languages is inconsistent anyway. Perhaps it doesn't feel as "wrong" to me as I'm not a native English speaker, or because I'm younger. He is right that it can be used in confusing ways, but the same holds true for a lot of language. "It depends on what the meaning of is, is", and all that ;-) Either way, it seems fairly clear to me that the singular they is the way to go for gender-neutral language in the foreseeable future. Is it perfect? Perhaps not. But it's practical, achievable, and a good improvement over exclusively using "his" or using the clumsy "his or her". Don't let perfection be the enemy of good!

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
I don't see how either considering using singular they goes all the way back to Chaucer or earlier (1400s).
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  I'm not 100% sure if I understand your comment (it's a bit confusing), but as I understand it using the singular they as a pronoun is fairly new, even using the singular they in other contexts isn't. This is what I meant with "singular they" (perhaps I should have been clearer about that).
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    It's only new, as I understand it, as a non-binary singular pronoun. Many of those contexts have also been used for a very long time as singular pronoun where gender isn't at present relevant, was clarified elsewhere or in person. An example. I might send out a mail about Dave, the new hire, and introduce him in my opening sentence. I might write every subsequent sentence and paragraph with they where gender is neither stated nor implied. This is a form we're perfectly comfortable with, used to and doesn't break any grammatical law. They will be starting on Monday. Their desk will be the free one by Alice. etc. There are one or two contexts where we're not used to seeing it, so its use may seem contrived or unnatural. The only difference as I see it, thanks to the recent rise of non-binary identity, is a wish for some not to ever have someone use he or she in their context. i.e. They always prefer "This is Bob, they started this morning and they will be taking the desk next to you" over "This is Bob, he..." That, I suspect, is why some might dislike they. It's already natural in many contexts, but it's also natural to drop to he/she in a few other contexts. So it may inadvertently encourage accidental use of a non-preferred pronoun in a way that an impersonal it, or per would not.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

I don't see how either considering using singular they goes all the way back to Chaucer or earlier (1400s).

Carpetsmoker 8y ago
I'm not 100% sure if I understand your comment (it's a bit confusing), but as I understand it using the singular they as a pronoun is fairly new, even using the singular they in other contexts isn't. This is what I meant with "singular they" (perhaps I should have been clearer about that).
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  It's only new, as I understand it, as a non-binary singular pronoun. Many of those contexts have also been used for a very long time as singular pronoun where gender isn't at present relevant, was clarified elsewhere or in person. An example. I might send out a mail about Dave, the new hire, and introduce him in my opening sentence. I might write every subsequent sentence and paragraph with they where gender is neither stated nor implied. This is a form we're perfectly comfortable with, used to and doesn't break any grammatical law. They will be starting on Monday. Their desk will be the free one by Alice. etc. There are one or two contexts where we're not used to seeing it, so its use may seem contrived or unnatural. The only difference as I see it, thanks to the recent rise of non-binary identity, is a wish for some not to ever have someone use he or she in their context. i.e. They always prefer "This is Bob, they started this morning and they will be taking the desk next to you" over "This is Bob, he..." That, I suspect, is why some might dislike they. It's already natural in many contexts, but it's also natural to drop to he/she in a few other contexts. So it may inadvertently encourage accidental use of a non-preferred pronoun in a way that an impersonal it, or per would not.