4 ms·

True, to be relevant you need to stay up to date. One of the pains in staying up to date in tech is that learning Perl then java then javascript then python an

True, to be relevant you need to stay up to date. One of the pains in staying up to date in tech is that learning Perl then java then javascript then python and whatever comes next and the corresponding frameworks seems like a big hamster wheel. You pretty much are doing the same thing you're just learning new ways to do it -not necessarily better. It seems like you're writing the same term paper over and over again. After a while, it loses its luster. If I could do it again I would choose a career where gaining knowledge adds to your mastery. In info. tech, it's a lateral move and you have to keep learning or you sink.

stickfigure 8y ago
Funny, I look at it very differently. After 25+ years as a professional polyglot... I feel like I can spin the hamster wheel with my pinkie. No, I haven't used that particular language/framework/whatever, but give me a week and I'll be as good as anyone on the team. There's not much new under the sun.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Same here, but that won't get you hired. Need to code under Swordfish conditions, have 5 years demonstrable experience in Framework_v2018, and hit the ground running!
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    Sure it will, at least at anyplace that could afford me. And hiring for specific framework knowledge is a big red flag anyway. I've also got 25+ years of contacts. I have to think that talented older developers who struggle with employment must have been antisocial in their careers. I cringed when the guy in TFA apparently threw a sandwich at a fast food worker - maybe there are some deeper personality issues at play besides just being old. It's no less sad, of course.
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      Personally, worked remote for a long time and it negatively affected my network before I realized it. In the 90s I could get a job within a month and networking wasn't as absolutely vital as now. Re the article, I suspect a baseline anger built up over being unemployed so long. That can lead to small injustices being blown out of proportion. Similar has happened to me in different areas over the years so can relate.
  - akvadrako 8y ago
    That might be true for lower-level positions and short-term contracts, but it's also not a big deal. If you are out of work for a month you can learn one of the new techs and be as productive in it as a overall less experienced developer who's been using it for years. When you find clients by word of mouth they rarely even ask for your CV - it's just "can you do this?".
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      Nope, I'm often up for senior Django positions and such. I've been using mostly Flask for a few years so will often not be able to answer highly specific questions about Django. Once I did well with the first generic question, do not filter in application code, do it in database. (Thought that was 10x more important than any library question.) Next question how to access a field with F(). Needed to look at stack overflow, did within a few mins. No offer. Also, they will ask questions across multiple fields which can't all be studied for. One Java Spring shop asked exclusively database questions after I spent weeks brushing up on Java Spring. Could only answer 90% of the questions, not bad considering. Even had a friend on the inside. No offer. Think about all the pass/fail exams at University with two surprise questions from any technical field. Oh yeah, doesn't exist because it would be absurd. It's endemic, bad interviews and coderpad.io. If you've got a network you can skip most of it, perhaps why many have not realized how bad it is from the outside.
- WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
  At my last job, I was in the room when my boss interviewed a new candidate. My job was to guide the new candidate with the paid homework that was to be returned for all the team to evaluate. He did not believe in the Q and A tech interview. He felt it was unfair and mostly useless. The one thing he always did was disqualify any candidate that could not answer the basic questions about our in-house stack. If you did not know at least the basics, my boss moved on to the next candidate. Fair or unfair it did not matter. He had enough experience to know that it takes time for people to learn a new framework and language plus our in-house procedures. It was always more productive to grab someone with experience. I suspect most employers think the same way. At one time, employers would take a chance and time to bring someone up to speed since it was harder to find the right person. The developer pool has expanded so much that now it's easier to find someone with experience.
Frondo 8y ago
One should be able to live and thrive in a society without staying "relevant". If relevance is the measure for "we give you enough resources to live and enjoy life" then it is not the right society.

stickfigure 8y ago

Funny, I look at it very differently. After 25+ years as a professional polyglot... I feel like I can spin the hamster wheel with my pinkie. No, I haven't used that particular language/framework/whatever, but give me a week and I'll be as good as anyone on the team. There's not much new under the sun.

mixmastamyk 8y ago
Same here, but that won't get you hired. Need to code under Swordfish conditions, have 5 years demonstrable experience in Framework_v2018, and hit the ground running!
- stickfigure 8y ago
  Sure it will, at least at anyplace that could afford me. And hiring for specific framework knowledge is a big red flag anyway. I've also got 25+ years of contacts. I have to think that talented older developers who struggle with employment must have been antisocial in their careers. I cringed when the guy in TFA apparently threw a sandwich at a fast food worker - maybe there are some deeper personality issues at play besides just being old. It's no less sad, of course.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Personally, worked remote for a long time and it negatively affected my network before I realized it. In the 90s I could get a job within a month and networking wasn't as absolutely vital as now. Re the article, I suspect a baseline anger built up over being unemployed so long. That can lead to small injustices being blown out of proportion. Similar has happened to me in different areas over the years so can relate.
- akvadrako 8y ago
  That might be true for lower-level positions and short-term contracts, but it's also not a big deal. If you are out of work for a month you can learn one of the new techs and be as productive in it as a overall less experienced developer who's been using it for years. When you find clients by word of mouth they rarely even ask for your CV - it's just "can you do this?".
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Nope, I'm often up for senior Django positions and such. I've been using mostly Flask for a few years so will often not be able to answer highly specific questions about Django. Once I did well with the first generic question, do not filter in application code, do it in database. (Thought that was 10x more important than any library question.) Next question how to access a field with F(). Needed to look at stack overflow, did within a few mins. No offer. Also, they will ask questions across multiple fields which can't all be studied for. One Java Spring shop asked exclusively database questions after I spent weeks brushing up on Java Spring. Could only answer 90% of the questions, not bad considering. Even had a friend on the inside. No offer. Think about all the pass/fail exams at University with two surprise questions from any technical field. Oh yeah, doesn't exist because it would be absurd. It's endemic, bad interviews and coderpad.io. If you've got a network you can skip most of it, perhaps why many have not realized how bad it is from the outside.
WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
At my last job, I was in the room when my boss interviewed a new candidate. My job was to guide the new candidate with the paid homework that was to be returned for all the team to evaluate. He did not believe in the Q and A tech interview. He felt it was unfair and mostly useless. The one thing he always did was disqualify any candidate that could not answer the basic questions about our in-house stack. If you did not know at least the basics, my boss moved on to the next candidate. Fair or unfair it did not matter. He had enough experience to know that it takes time for people to learn a new framework and language plus our in-house procedures. It was always more productive to grab someone with experience. I suspect most employers think the same way. At one time, employers would take a chance and time to bring someone up to speed since it was harder to find the right person. The developer pool has expanded so much that now it's easier to find someone with experience.

Frondo 8y ago

One should be able to live and thrive in a society without staying "relevant". If relevance is the measure for "we give you enough resources to live and enjoy life" then it is not the right society.